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Old 13-04-2014, 08:31   #31
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Hey Mark,
How many cruisers do you think would set sail today if they had no maps, no weather and no autopilot. Those old sailors has skill levels far beyond our modern counterpart. They mapped the bloody oceans and created everything that you and I take for granted.
They only had skills in now irrelevant areas.

Does it make you a better driver of a modern car to have learned how to crank start a Model T Ford?
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Old 13-04-2014, 08:31   #32
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Sailing as been going down hill skill wise since Columbus proved the world wasn't flat!

Heck not long after that the people sailing in the Caribbean even had the use of charts. How could the wuzzies ever consider themselves "real" sailor.
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Old 13-04-2014, 08:36   #33
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

The evolution of cruisers has got a bit ahead of itself and maybe needs to take a step back.
Wind and waves are a totally egalitarian environment. They treat everyone exactly the same, and how we fair comes down to experience.

Younger first world cruisers, (particularly from the USA?) are a product of the pop psychology that started 4 or 5 decades ago.
Kids were raised by parents who believed they should build their self esteem and confidence by telling them they were special, and unique, and above average.
So everyone under 40 is unique, just like everyone else , and they're all above average , and of course special.
Understandably, this became the mindset of a generation who truly believe they will be treated by life and circumstances with the advantages their fortunate upbringing has given them.

In addition they have been taught the value of education, so they have gone and done courses and collected tickets to hang on the wall.

Now they are qualified cruisers. The sea will of course give them credit for their efforts, treat them with more respect and give them an easier time.
Yeah, right!

Wind and waves don't play by society's rules. They don't recognize uniqueness or that they should treat some cruisers more leniently.

Learning to sail is easy. Seamanship, and becoming a cruiser takes time and experience.

My 2 cents.

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Old 13-04-2014, 08:36   #34
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
. Which sailor would have developed a beter inate sensitivity to nautical matters?
I really can't answer that
I can answer it. Sensitivity to nautical matters matters not. BUt ability to get there and doing is safely does.

We are better, safer and more likely to get there than any before us. Doesnt matter if you are talking Cook or Pardys.
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Old 13-04-2014, 08:39   #35
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I knew cruisers from forty years back and to the present that have worn an earring as a fashoin to represent their free and non-conformist choice, but I am also aware that the tradition began as a means for the dead seaman who was washed ashore to have a payment for his funeral. There's no question that cruising is safer today than the past and that the average cruiser today is more knowledgable than the average man at sea in the past. It's easy to select a dozen spectacular captains over a span of 500 years of world exploration. I suspect we could find an equal number that have excelled within the last fifty years.
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Old 13-04-2014, 08:41   #36
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I have to say its easy enough to sail today that many long range cruisers I have run into just barely have basic sailing skills. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to cross an ocean, its pretty damn easy if you have the temperament, use a little bit of common sense and you stay to the middle lattitudes.
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Old 13-04-2014, 08:46   #37
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The Evolution of Cruisers

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post

Learning to sail is easy. Seamanship, and becoming a cruiser takes time and experience.


Vic

+1 on that part, I would add its takes knowledgeb( education), time and experience.

But today's cruisers have far more opportunity to put time in and hence build experience. They have capable boats. Destination knowledge, more vacation time , are healthier and have better nutrition , not to mention better worldwide food availability. Also there is more of us, statistically we will generate more experienced sailors.

We are incrementally better then our parents ( tiny but so ) , our kids will become better cruisers then us.

We stand on the shoulders of giants, so that we may also become giants.

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Old 13-04-2014, 08:55   #38
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I have to say its easy enough to sail today that many long range cruisers I have run into just barely have basic sailing skills. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to cross an ocean, its pretty damn easy if you have the temperament, use a little bit of common sense and you stay to the middle lattitudes.
I abosutely agree! The doors are opened for people to cruise with less knowledge; however, this does not result in a lower number of skilled cruisers, but simply a larger base for more to advance.
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Old 13-04-2014, 08:56   #39
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

One person who recently banged on in this forum about how important it is for new cruisers to learn the sextant just sank his boat.

Didn't help him!

He would have learned more by taking the boat out..... sailing....



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Old 13-04-2014, 08:57   #40
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
One person who recently banged on in this forum about how important it is for new cruisers to learn the sextant just sank his boat.

Didn't help him!

He would have learned more by taking the boat out..... sailing....



Mark

I'm bursting to know , who is that ....

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:02   #41
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Mark,
Couldn't agree with you more but don't you find that sort of normal these days. People may not be learning celestial nav but they spend days/weeks/months adding every damn gadget known to man to their boat while its chained to the dock. The odd time if everything is just perfect they carefully leave the dock to go and sail. We are passing thru the Med right now and the charter boats are the ones really doing some sailing while the so called cruisers are adding more gear and waiting for weather windows.
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:07   #42
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Mark,
Couldn't agree with you more but don't you find that sort of normal these days. People may not be learning celestial nav but they spend days/weeks/months adding every damn gadget known to man to their boat while its chained to the dock. The odd time if everything is just perfect they carefully leave the dock to go and sail. We are passing thru the Med right now and the charter boats are the ones really doing some sailing while the so called cruisers are adding more gear and waiting for weather windows.

I did two deliveries, nothing worked, the boats were a mess, no AP, no radios, fubared sails. We got through in the end. But hey. Beryl smeeton was a god.

Why wish suffering on someone to prove their so called credentials , very catholic.

As to " gear" , men like gadgets, boats are often merely a platform for tech toys , so what.

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Old 13-04-2014, 09:12   #43
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Mark,
Couldn't agree with you more but don't you find that sort of normal these days. People may not be learning celestial nav but they spend days/weeks/months adding every damn gadget known to man to their boat while its chained to the dock. The odd time if everything is just perfect they carefully leave the dock to go and sail. We are passing thru the Med right now and the charter boats are the ones really doing some sailing while the so called cruisers are adding more gear and waiting for weather windows.
Yes, I think you are spot on.

The charter boats are the most basic version of the cruiser production boats, but they are independent for a week at a time, every week.

Mine is excharter and I sailed it for 5 years without additions because I was broke. Now I am sitting in one place not sailing so I can do the boat up. But the time i have finished I will be 12 months without having done a passage!

There is a lot of stuff we dont need, that is ver complicated and prone to falling apart.... A good example is pumps... The only pump with much pressure is a water pump at 50 psi..... Then we add a bowthruster with hydraulics at high pressure, freezers with 24/7 salt water pumps, air con, genes..... Ahhh

The worst thing about buying then fitting out is one doesnt know if they will enjoy the cruising life till after they go cruising!
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:13   #44
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I think sailing (boating in general) is undergoing the same transition due to technological advancements and easier access as pretty much every other trade or skill in the world. Way more people can now enjoy fruits of our predecessor's labour and way more people can now be bad at it. But that doesn't mean the best among us won't also benefit for those advantages; it's just a different playing field.

Head over to rockclimbing.com and listen to the oldsters brag about climbing with hemp rope and leather boots in one breath and be amazed at Chris Sharma's latest success that is literally 4 times as hard as any oldster could have ever done with old equipment.

Hang out on the photography forums and listen to the photogs brag about old-school film and negs then check out the spectacular images that Nat Geo is pumping out each issue with all the modern toys they have at their disposal.

And don't get me started on the state of graphic design and desktop publishing... sheesh.

All this to say that technology and innovation drives participation from a broader base. At this point in my sailing career, I'm not about to hop on a boat that doesn't have the lines running back to the cockpit, because I don't know any other way. Eventually I will either learn better or settle into sailing mediocrity. Either way it doesn't really harm the trade except for the more crowded anchorages and marina's and frankly (as in all my other examples) that just drives the pros to find new and better places to go and things to do.

Yes, the base has grown. The beginner's and wannabe's are crawling out of the woodwork. Accidents are going to increase, but then will create a market for safety technology that everyone can use. There will be more arrogant yahoo's out on the water, but if the trend holds true to form that will mean that the art of sailing will gain more and more adherents and popularity. Hell, Ice climbing was a demonstration sport at the Sochi Olympics—who'a thunk? And best of all, the knowledge will continue to be preserved and to grow. I was watching some 70's era Swedish videos (no, not that kid) the other day made to try and preserve the art of tall ship sailing because they are afraid its getting lost.

I think we will see some of the best sailors (and photographers, and climbers and designers and musicians and...) coming out of this new breed. The price is putting up with hordes of us beginners banging into every little thing we can find (and some we can't). It'll be great for the fender salesmen...
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Old 13-04-2014, 09:22   #45
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Back in the early 1980s all I had was a paper chart, compass, vhf with maybe a 20 mile range and the skills to dead recon. So I knew enough to stay within 19 miles of some coastline, island or mainland.

Today with nothing more than a single gps and a cell phone, there seems to be no shortage of knuckleheads out there doing dumbass things with a false sense of security and inflated ego IMHO and first hand observations. The same holds true for mountaineering.

In today's world, common sense is no longer.common... maybe that's the real issue.
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