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Old 13-04-2014, 06:58   #16
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
i blame it all on auto pilots!,allowing a 2 person crew to keep a boat going 24/7,keeping a reasonable watch,without extreme exhaustion.

how many people actually hand steer a vessel these days across an ocean without a reasonable sized crew?

A perceptive POV. But is a crewman on a 20 crew sailing ship , more or less a sailor to the 2 on a modern yacht.

I don't think you can make direct 1-1 comparisons.

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Old 13-04-2014, 06:58   #17
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Hey Mark,
How many cruisers do you think would set sail today if they had no maps, no weather and no autopilot. Those old sailors has skill levels far beyond our modern counterpart. They mapped the bloody oceans and created everything that you and I take for granted.
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Old 13-04-2014, 07:02   #18
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Hey Mark,
How many cruisers do you think would set sail today if they had no maps, no weather and no autopilot. Those old sailors has skill levels far beyond our modern counterpart. They mapped the bloody oceans and created everything that you and I take for granted.

Lyn and Larry mapped the oceans ! , did the Smeetons create GPS??? I mean how far back do you want to go.

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Old 13-04-2014, 07:06   #19
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The Evolution of Cruisers

We and a few other sailing sites would probably have criticized Slocum for setting out so unprepared.
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Old 13-04-2014, 07:07   #20
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

Thats my point Dave, the sailors of old are not in any way giving anything up to the modern counterpart, they were a unique breed and will not be duplicated in todays society.
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Old 13-04-2014, 07:09   #21
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Hey Mark,
How many cruisers do you think would set sail today if they had no maps, no weather and no autopilot. Those old sailors has skill levels far beyond our modern counterpart. They mapped the bloody oceans and created everything that you and I take for granted.

Sorry. Being serious for a moment

In the days of Bligh and Cook, these people were trained surveyors. They have compatibly large crews, who mostly did the work, I mean did Jobs engineer the iphone , no he didn't.

Equally in the pre GPS days , or Knox Johnston etc, when in fact there were extremely few cruisers at all, these people had specific skills, that were needed to operate the boat they had in the technology environment they existed in.

Today we have single handed high speed round the world sailors ,made they better then their predecessors, you can bet your bottom dollar on it.

In fact it's difficult to compare today's cruisers with the past , prior to about 1965 , none existed !!dave


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Old 13-04-2014, 07:11   #22
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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We and a few other sailing sites would probably have criticized Slocum for setting out so unprepared.

I'm not sure, if they, ie the sailing sites, had existed then, they would probably have been telling him he was doing to much preparing, his boat was too big, he should " go now" and he didn't need that new fangled marine chronometer.

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Old 13-04-2014, 07:13   #23
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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Thats my point Dave, the sailors of old are not in any way giving anything up to the modern counterpart, they were a unique breed and will not be duplicated in todays society.

Unique , absolutely ,they were a product of their time, better , no

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Old 13-04-2014, 07:21   #24
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

If you are going back five hundred years, remember history mentions those who made it back. How many others did the kings and queens of Europe bankroll, who never made it back?
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Old 13-04-2014, 07:26   #25
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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If you are going back five hundred years, remember history mentions those who made it back. How many others did the kings and queens of Europe bankroll, who never made it back?

Or the hundreds , nay thousands lost to navigational errors that today are almost impossible to make.

Not to mention the indifference to death at sea and the loss of crew in that period

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Old 13-04-2014, 07:28   #26
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I do agree Dave that cruising as we know it now is rather recent but sailors have been around a very long time.
Yes you are right, offshore racers today are unique in their own way but none could handle their boats very long with out the latest and greatest technologies. The newer autopilots are the result of the faster boats and they are really cool and no racer today can be without one working 24/7.
I can't debate whether modern boats and modern gear isn't better by an unbelievable measure but the human being that is operating this gear, especially todays cruisers are in my mind not an equal to past sailors like the Smeetons,Pardey's and Knox Johnson's as you brought up.
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Old 13-04-2014, 07:34   #27
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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I do agree Dave that cruising as we know it now is rather recent but sailors have been around a very long time.
Yes you are right, offshore racers today are unique in their own way but none could handle their boats very long with out the latest and greatest technologies. The newer autopilots are the result of the faster boats and they are really cool and no racer today can be without one working 24/7.
I can't debate whether modern boats and modern gear isn't better by an unbelievable measure but the human being that is operating this gear, especially todays cruisers are in my mind not an equal to past sailors like the Smeetons,Pardey's and Knox Johnson's as you brought up.

So say someone like Phil and he's not alone, that brought a crippled vessel across the Atlantic isn't up to or better then the smeetons. I know several sailors today that have wrested vessels through unimaginable conditions and got the vessel home, including have steering, jury rigging etc.

The smeetons and the Pardeys were unusual, outliers of you will, one cannot compare such people within" ordinary cruisers"

I know, people like Michael holland who sailed his ketch to Antartica recently , he didn't pitch pole at the horn , So he's not a competent sailor, it seems.

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Old 13-04-2014, 07:37   #28
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

I think to fairly compare the past and present cruiser's attributes, you have to remove the unfair advantage of accumulative knowledge and ask..... Which sailor would have developed a beter inate sensitivity to nautical matters?
I really can't answer that except to say that the elders managed to sail less efficient craft without engines
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Old 13-04-2014, 07:43   #29
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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I think to fairly compare the past and present cruiser's attributes, you have to remove the unfair advantage of accumulative knowledge and ask..... Which sailor would have developed a beter inate sensitivity to nautical matters?
I really can't answer that.

But every generation benefits from accumulated knowledge and improvements in technology. No more then cook did or rock star sailors do today

" sensitivity to nautical matters " , lol , I like that.

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Old 13-04-2014, 08:20   #30
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Re: The Evolution of Cruisers

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I have a theory about anti-Darwinism. I think it could be applied to modern GPS, EPIRB cruising.

It basically goes like this, in pure evolution survival of the fittest-The strongest and most successful reproduce the most. In a Modern welfare state, the poorest and theoretically weakest have economic incentives to reproduce the most. The richest probably don't want the legal liability and hassles of all those kids and the middle income people can't afford the copay and college tuitions on more than one or two children.

I would suggest the quick rescue afforded by the EPIRB and GPS navigation has created the same anti Darwinism in cruisers.
I don't think Darwinism or anti-Darwinism comes into this because probably most sailers who are taken out by tragedy or rescued are probably old farts like myself who have already reproduced before they went to sea.

I would think the average age of the modern sailer is much older than in previous times.
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