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Old 14-10-2016, 16:13   #16
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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Theres plenty of room past Bella Bella for any size ship. Most likely mechanical failure at fault. A few thousand gallons of diesel won't ruin the area...Bella Bella dumps their raw sewage straight into the ocean so if their clam beds survive that I'm sure all will be OK.

Oh boy..!
I guess bad plus bad equals okay..?!
Give me a break! Are you familiar with that region or an armchair sailor?
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Old 14-10-2016, 16:27   #17
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

The issue is that this tanker barge does not supply the BC coast, but delivers to main ports in Alaska.

All other tanker ships run outside of Vancouver island to avoid the risk of contamination of BC coastlines.

If you look at the video, this barge combination has already come close to loosing their cargo before in heavy weather. (Which is 1/3 the spill volume of the Exon Valdez event)

The fact that the barge was empty is a blessing, not a reason to dismiss this as a necessary and acceptable risk.

Money, not common sense gave them an exemption , which now I hope will be revoked.
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Old 14-10-2016, 18:49   #18
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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Oh boy..!
I guess bad plus bad equals okay..?!
Give me a break! Are you familiar with that region or an armchair sailor?
I have sailed the area many times....you?
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Old 14-10-2016, 19:35   #19
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

Unless you have oar ports, we all use fuel. Taking a tug outside Vancouver Island costs more than running the inside passage. Vessels making this passage on a schedule learn to use the currents to their advantage and deliver their cargo for less money. Maybe why fuel is more expensive in Canada. Fuel and other cargoes have to be delivered to remote areas on a schedule, so storms can't be totally avoided. The outside is much more dangerous than the inside. Many ships have run aground on the west side. Barges being smaller than ships take a beating on the outside.
That said, rules concerning moving oil cargoes thru Canadian waters is best left to Canadians.
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Old 14-10-2016, 19:43   #20
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

how does a pusher tug run aground and sink. you'd think the 300' of barge infront of it would hit first... I guess it was a little bit less draft then the tug.
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Old 14-10-2016, 20:14   #21
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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Unless you have oar ports, we all use fuel. Taking a tug outside Vancouver Island costs more than running the inside passage. Vessels making this passage on a schedule learn to use the currents to their advantage and deliver their cargo for less money. Maybe why fuel is more expensive in Canada. Fuel and other cargoes have to be delivered to remote areas on a schedule, so storms can't be totally avoided. The outside is much more dangerous than the inside. Many ships have run aground on the west side. Barges being smaller than ships take a beating on the outside.
That said, rules concerning moving oil cargoes thru Canadian waters is best left to Canadians.
Lepke you are missing the key points

This tug/barge combo does not service BC ports

It carries about 3, 580, 000 US gallons of fuel for Alaska ports

It is not suitable for going safely offshore so should not be allowed inside......BUT because it saves some multinational companies some money in competition with proper tanker ships safely using the outside route... it was improperly allowed.

I used to run tug and barges both on the inside and outside of these waters, so I know the year round conditions.

Even on the inside, there are nasty exposed parts...

The small supply ships and coastal tankers are highly maneuverable and sea kindly in winter storms for supplying coastal Canadian communities ......Whereas this very large 287ft barge and pusher tug bound for Alaska ports is NOT!!!
It has no reason to be allowed in these beautiful confined waters.
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Old 14-10-2016, 20:44   #22
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

Yes...commerce should be stopped and we can all live off of Bella Bella's clams providing they share with us.
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Old 14-10-2016, 21:16   #23
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

Tell us a bit more about yourself Eder and how you came to that definitive conclusion based on what I said above?
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Old 14-10-2016, 21:25   #24
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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The fact that it went aground is warning enough, IMHO. Why issue an exemption to the law so that a tanker barge of this size can run the inside passage? I understand that fuel needs to be taken into the communities along the IP but that shouldn't mean that large tanker barges are allowed to run the IP.
Warning enough for what? to know that vessel's sometimes run aground for one reason or another? I honestly think you will be better off berating the consumers of said fuel oil, supply and demand you know? When you stop buying it, they will leave.
And that is not a large barge by any stretch, pun intended.
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Old 14-10-2016, 21:32   #25
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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Yes...commerce should be stopped and we can all live off of Bella Bella's clams providing they share with us.
Clams are notoriously poor providers.
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Old 14-10-2016, 22:37   #26
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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Warning enough for what? to know that vessel's sometimes run aground for one reason or another? I honestly think you will be better off berating the consumers of said fuel oil, supply and demand you know? When you stop buying it, they will leave.
And that is not a large barge by any stretch, pun intended.
It was always an artificial supply and demand. Gov't was/is subsidizing oil and gas for years - $1 leases on public lands, special tax breaks not available to Joe Shmoe, ramming pipelines through unwilling states and neighborhoods via eminent domain laws, etc. That's not "free market" by any stretch of imagination. You give the same incentives and political power to alternatives for same number of decades and watch the demand for their products/services magically go up as their costs and prices go down. If the oil and gas industry had to pay full market rate for leases, negotiate ROWs at arms length without the eminent domain hanging over the property owners' heads and be subject to strict liability for its screw ups there would not be much of the oil and gas industry. And instead we'd be b*tching about a solar/wind power barge running aground. But in the long run this would still be imminently preferable to your everyday tanker/barge running aground.
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Old 14-10-2016, 22:47   #27
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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It was always an artificial supply and demand. Gov't was/is subsidizing oil and gas for years - $1 leases on public lands, special tax breaks not available to Joe Shmoe, ramming pipelines through unwilling states and neighborhoods via eminent domain laws, etc. That's not "free market" by any stretch of imagination. You give the same incentives and political power to alternatives for same number of decades and watch the demand for their products/services magically go up as their costs and prices go down. If the oil and gas industry had to pay full market rate for leases, negotiate ROWs at arms length without the eminent domain hanging over the property owners' heads and be subject to strict liability for its screw ups there would not be much of the oil and gas industry. And instead we'd be b*tching about a solar/wind power barge running aground. But in the long run this would still be imminently preferable to your everyday tanker/barge running aground.
You can sling it anyway you want to. The United State's of America's Constitution and Bill of Right,s clear always has given the power to We The People. It was our choice and generation's in the recent past that decided to be coddled by government is better than risking being responsible for self. To late to bitch about how the master's are doing it. imo
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Old 14-10-2016, 22:56   #28
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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You can sling it anyway you want to. The United State's of America's Constitution and Bill of Right,s clear always has given the power to We The People. It was our choice and generation's in the recent past that decided to be coddled by government is better than risking being responsible for self. To late to bitch about how the master's are doing it. imo
Not really bitching but just trying to get the terms straight. Not much of a discussion if we skew the terms to a point when a heavily subsidized and oligapolized industry becomes a pillar of free market enterprise.

BTW the electric car was invented way before the gas one and way before the diesel one. But the so called "choice" of fuels to promote was same kind of choice as was made when (I forget which robber baron it was) XYZ figured out he can sell twice as much copper to the gov't which was wiring the country for electricity if the voltage was 110v instead of 220v and so he paid huge bribes to the members of Congress to push 110v standard while the rest of the world was fine with 220v. And so it went.
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Old 14-10-2016, 23:15   #29
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Re: Tanker Barge aground in BC

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Not really bitching but just trying to get the terms straight. Not much of a discussion if we skew the terms to a point when a heavily subsidized and oligapolized industry becomes a pillar of free market enterprise.

BTW the electric car was invented way before the gas one and way before the diesel one. But the so called "choice" of fuels to promote was same kind of choice as was made when (I forget which robber baron it was) XYZ figured out he can sell twice as much copper to the gov't which was wiring the country for electricity if the voltage was 110v instead of 220v and so he paid huge bribes to the members of Congress to push 110v standard while the rest of the world was fine with 220v. And so it went.
No, not saying you were bitching, just seems most my countrymen do.
I very much agree with this guy. https://youtu.be/RB_onSRDA-Q
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