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Old 04-03-2017, 23:19   #46
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

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Originally Posted by Time Theory View Post
As long as you got money, you can get any girlfriend, wife or mistress to sail with you. It is all about the money.. Ask me how I know this.
Probably a lack of experience, but that is not a question.
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Old 05-03-2017, 00:36   #47
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

One of the first things Bill said when we began building PILAR was, "It is more important that we do this TOGETHER rather than how well it is done."

The times that either one of us forgot that were the only low points in our thirty-four years together with our boat.

Oh, and add me to the list of women who fix heads. I had one disassembled on the dock when we first met.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:00   #48
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

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Originally Posted by Time Theory View Post
As long as you got money, you can get any girlfriend, wife or mistress to sail with you. It is all about the money.. Ask me how I know this.
Without a doubt, you are correct.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:44   #49
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

I agree with the OP and with other posters about how serious the problem is, both in the sailing world and beyond. Looking on the bright side, things are changing and women are well on their way to running the world - just look at university enrolments in almost all fields. Men have proven that they do, at best, a mediocre job. Women can't do worse.

Back to sailing, my wife is an equal partner in our sailing adventures. It was her idea for us to circumnavigate. She was born in Beijing and has become a role model for young women sailors in China. This is important since that country is so male-dominated.

I guess what I am saying is that complete change will be generational in nature. It is hard to be patient when this affects one now, but it is necessary I think.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:07   #50
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

Hmm, treat your life partner with respect. Pretty easy.

While sailing affords so many freedoms, aboard we have developed many rules.

Rule 1. Never hand a dock line to anyone with less experience docking OUR boat than us.
Rule 2. The one on the helm is the person in charge.
Rule 3. At any time, I reserve the right to take the helm.

Some may have trouble, but we have mutually agreed to this, as I tend to be more come in emergency situations.

Rule 4. Each of us must be perfectly capable of single-handing the boat in any conditions likely to be encountered.

My wife doesn't like being in charge in heavier conditions, so occasionally, I just declare I'm not feeling well and need her take over, to ensure she keeps her skills up.

In my experience, many women don't develop good sailing skills because:
A) They don't want to.
B) There partner won't allow them to.
C) There partner insists on constantly teaching them.

The best teacher is a multi day passage. The skipper simply can't stay awake all the time, and must relinquish control to their mate at some point.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:08   #51
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

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Originally Posted by Sailorlady323 View Post
I am a female licenced Captain and have sailed oceans. You just have to keep to your job and ignore the noise. Remember we are capable of doing more than one thing at a time.
The guys are serial computers -one thing at a time. Many of the "instructors on the dock don't even know how to tie a cleat hitch properly. Just enjoy your sailing . Its a great life. We can only change them by demonstrating our competence.

My wife and I are Partners at life. We each work to our strengths and help with the others weaknesses.

I agree that many dock hands are incompetent. More than that they too often think they are in charge. Nearly every scratch on my topsides is there because the dock crew were trying to do "A" when I was asking for "B".

I'm offended that you think I'm a "serial computer" and only capable of doing one thing at a time. Sounds rather "Sexist" to me.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:53   #52
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

The only deep scratch that was inflicted on my previous boat was because against my better judgement, I followed the command of a Ballard Locks attendant.

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Old 06-03-2017, 22:50   #53
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

I'm a newbie here and just getting started. Thank you for the inspiring post by Carsten's wife. My husband and I are taking the ASA 101-104 courses in April in BVI. I've sailed a small Hobie cat on lakes growing up and recently in the ocean and loved it! We both love the water, diving, sea life, and are hoping that sailing and live aboard cruising may be our retirement plan. This post made me feel like I can really do this! I want to be able to contribute equally. Thanks for the inspiration!
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Old 06-03-2017, 23:09   #54
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

I agree that both partners should be able to handle all the duties on the boat.

When we got our first 30' boat, it was on the Great Lakes and early spring while the marina was pretty much empty, had Tammy practice in the 50' slips. That way there was no audience, extra room for error and no "helpful" dock assistance.

As far as the lead in story, I'm of the strong opinion that if you are competent and there are no unusual situations, avoid random dock help as much as possible. 9 out of 10 times when we have trouble docking it's because someone helpful grabs a line and starts pulling or snubs it off messing up an otherwise good approach.

We've found the best way to handle it is to completely ignore any dock help until the boat is in it's final position and then if they feel obliged, hand them a line after the boat is in position and secure. Thank them politely and as soon as they walk away, retie the line you handed them because it's probably not the way I want it.
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Old 07-03-2017, 00:11   #55
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Hmm, treat your life partner with respect. Pretty easy.

While sailing affords so many freedoms, aboard we have developed many rules.

Rule 1. Never hand a dock line to anyone with less experience docking OUR boat than us.
Rule 2. The one on the helm is the person in charge.
Rule 3. At any time, I reserve the right to take the helm.

Some may have trouble, but we have mutually agreed to this, as I tend to be more come in emergency situations.

Rule 4. Each of us must be perfectly capable of single-handing the boat in any conditions likely to be encountered.

My wife doesn't like being in charge in heavier conditions, so occasionally, I just declare I'm not feeling well and need her take over, to ensure she keeps her skills up.

In my experience, many women don't develop good sailing skills because:
A) They don't want to.
B) There partner won't allow them to.
C) There partner insists on constantly teaching them.

The best teacher is a multi day passage. The skipper simply can't stay awake all the time, and must relinquish control to their mate at some point.
Your rule number 4 is the same concept we have - each of us must be able to single-hand the boat through any conditions and any distant that is necessary. On passage - if I fall and let's say "only" break my leg - well I'm pretty much out of it (you don't jump around in a cockpit and haul on winches etc with broken legs or arms)and that leaves everything up to Vinni (my wife).

Being able to single-hand also generates a lot of self-confidence.
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Old 07-03-2017, 00:22   #56
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

I appreciate dock help, but I try to be careful and cautious when handing off lines. Bow lines are the most problematic, so I usually hand off the breast/spring line to unknown dock hands. And then I give clear instructions: “DON’T PULL!”. “WAIT!”, and “USE THE CLEAT!” It’s amazing how many people think they can man(woman) handle our boat. I tell them she is to heavy (15 tons): “USE THE DAMN CLEAT!"

My worst “docking” experience with unhelpful deckhands was actually in a lock. We went in planning to slide up to the side and loop lines around the vertical cables to ride the water down (this is how it was set up). As we entered we were unexpectedly ordered to toss the lock hands our bow and stern lines. It was unnecessary, but we complied. As soon as the young gal had a hold of our bow line she started reefing on it for all she was worth. Suddenly our controlled approach to the wall became an uncontrolled spin as she hauled in on the bow. A strong tail wind (which I was managing) caught our now angled stern, and we were off.

Nice thing was I learned I could spin our 40 foot boat in a 45 foot wide lock with prop-walk, a large audience, and a lot of cursing.
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Old 07-03-2017, 00:52   #57
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
I understand your good faith, but the post is based on a false assumption (sexism).

Truth is, marine operators, as an attitude, scream and yell orders. To anyone.
I find a personal pride in making almost perfect maneuvers when mooring, and l hate being told something, IF:
unnecessary
Untimely
Wrong
Perfunctory.

And that is what l yell back to any blue collar pretending to address any captain on helm.

Even gentle and well intended guys open mouth for plain evidence, just stressing the obvious....ouch!

Ok, their work.... the many sub-standard sailors (?) and inpoliteness.

Beyond crazy pricing, i hate marinas for this very reason.

Fishermen are a far better choice, and commercial boat are too
Agree, when docking I tell all crew ,male or female to listen to me, I have authority over bringing my boat to a dock, regardless of what gets said on the side lines.

At the risk of getting rocks thrown at me I just dont see the inequality that is often spoken about, I see rudeness from both genders. It goes both ways, but one direction is the only one that is spoken about. My reality is some people are just rude. To be honest I see more women treating their mates like s... than the other way around, it maybe more subtle but its there, it's not politically correct to or in fashion to point it out.

Last week when I went into an engineering shop and asked if he could extent this by 30cm I got , this is a f........ engineering shop not a f...... dress shop, speak mm. Obviously this didn't end well, but I didn't have the luxury of saying its because im a white middle age male, the reality was the guy was just a ass.

Personally I encourage all crew, women or men to learn what they can while onboard. I personally prefer lady crew but I dont accept the sexism victim thing anymore and no longer sustain from entering the debate when its brought up.

No offence intended.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:50   #58
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

Quote:
Originally Posted by darylat8750 View Post
My wife and I are Partners at life. We each work to our strengths and help with the others weaknesses.

I agree that many dock hands are incompetent. More than that they too often think they are in charge. Nearly every scratch on my topsides is there because the dock crew were trying to do "A" when I was asking for "B".

I'm offended that you think I'm a "serial computer" and only capable of doing one thing at a time. Sounds rather "Sexist" to me.
Re:
Well intentioned dock hands.

Our rule number 427. If some offers assistance while docking, we offer no line and ask them to fend off the bow. If they look puzzled we request they step out of the way.

Too many inexperienced docking helpers, believe they should stop the boat with the bow line, before the vessel is stopped by the engine or aft of midship cleat. Invariably, it ends up with the bow smashing into the dock, or the helper standing dumbfounded in the middle of the boarding gate so the competent crew can't get off the boat as required.

By standing up at the front of the slip, prepared to "fend off the bow" it feels like they are helping, and they can't do anything wrong or get in the way.
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Old 07-03-2017, 15:58   #59
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Re:
Well intentioned dock hands.

Our rule number 427. If some offers assistance while docking, we offer no line and ask them to fend off the bow. If they look puzzled we request they step out of the way.

Too many inexperienced docking helpers, believe they should stop the boat with the bow line, before the vessel is stopped by the engine or aft of midship cleat. Invariably, it ends up with the bow smashing into the dock, or the helper standing dumbfounded in the middle of the boarding gate so the competent crew can't get off the boat as required.

By standing up at the front of the slip, prepared to "fend off the bow" it feels like they are helping, and they can't do anything wrong or get in the way.
Oh you've just reminded me. On the inner, most landward berth in a very public pier in a marina known for gales more often than not. 70ft length incl bowsprit and davits, maybe 15ft shorter than the waterway width to the next pier, some violent engine power, forward and astern manouevering was normal to bring the boaw around 90 degrees to line up the berth.

Just enough time for enthusiastically keen "dockhands" ... pier strollers, day sailors, girlfriend impressors, sometimes the one one officious marina employee to wander down to lend a hand, catch a rope.

The boat was 30 tonne. The gale often came from a few degrees off directly astern, we'd always instruct any line catcher just to give the line a turn around the wharf bollard, and throw the end back. We'd use the engine and sheet winches to bring her in the last few feet.

Often they would. Zip zip zip, (throw, bollard, return throw) job done, all good and many thanks.

But just as often the helpers knew better. We'd tell 'em a few times, but they'd just brace themselves, feet wide apart, two hands on the line, and expect to hold us or pull us in. Proof of strength.

"OK then, don't use the bollard then! Just, whatever happens, don't let go of that bloody rope mate".

You know what we'd try next.

Sometimes we'd need to idle forward. Other times the force of the wind was enough. We'd pretend to be occupied with other tasks, rope coiling and such, not noticing their plight. They'd be inched down the pier, the realisation sinking in that they can't hold a big yacht in a gale, that they should have taken a turn around the bollard. But it's too late once the boat has a little way on again, and the bollard is soon out of reach.

We never did manage to pull a girlfriend impressor into the drink. Did have a couple yelling for help over the years. Always entertaining to try through.
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Old 07-03-2017, 23:16   #60
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Re: So Your Wife/GF Doesn't Want to Sail, Here is Why and Here is What You can do Abo

I don't always think of this in advance, but the best solution to 'helpful" dock hands is to throw them the end of the line with a spliced loop and with no extra length. Tell them forcefully to put it on a specific cleat or bollard. If they don't have enough slack to get a good grip on the line, it's harder for them to do you much harm, and if they actually follow directions you are in good shape to warp the vessel in or snub off a midship line..

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