Should wreck owners be held accountable?

[contrail]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

https://www.gofundme.com/levi-verwoe...C3RZZJ2050cKAo

I would have thought that Levi is talented enough to earn another boat like the one he lost, in short order. Why a funding request?

[WillyTheRat]

Originally Posted by Fiveslide

I don't clean up for the people coming to the park, I do it because of the enjoyment I've gotten over the years from the park. It hurts my heart to see garbage on a shoreline.

Spending your free time cleaning up after people makes you hate people, it has me.

20 years ago I worked as material control specialist for General Dynamics at Bushy Park, Goose Creek SC on second shift in the dark. The maintenance manager refused to buy lights for our lifts. So I bought them. The manager let the outside building lights go without replacement. I finally became so disgusted that I quit buying lights for the lifts. So for four years I used a freaking flashlight out in the dark to find parts. There is a point:
I am now retired from heart failure with an ICD (pacemaker defibrillator in my chest) I walk a 1.2 mile stretch of road daily. I have had to remove at least 80 11-gallon bags of trash from beside the road. And I carry trash bags with me on my daily walks.
Two points: If I had continued to buy the lights for the lifts, my job would have been massively easier. And if I had left the trash on the road, I would have hated walking.
So accept what our people might be and do what makes your life happier.

[C38]

This 25 ft runabout sank at anchor outside of Richmond, Ca Channel entrance to my marina. It is in about 20ish ft of water and very much in an area where boats would go. It has been there since early summer. My girlfriend called the Coast Guard and they said they couldn't do anything and that they had tried to contact the owner. They actually gave her the persons name and contact if she wanted to. Crazy.

[elcappytan]

I have a little 20-20 hind sight for all these boaters out there on the subject of abandon boat's. One of my best friend's sold his 25' chris craft that didn't run and needed a lot of work real cheap on craig's list. The buyer towed the boat out and anchored it. The new owner must have decided it was going to be to much work to rebuild it and just left the boat on anchor. The boat eventually sunk and FWC came after the last registered owner which was my friend. The new owner never registered the boat. Here's the lesson learned. When you sell a boat make sure you have a copy of the bill of sale. My friend didn't and he's on the hook for salvaging the boat. The new owner says he never bought the boat so it's a he said, she said pissing contest and it's not looking good for my friend. He's been to court twice and has another hearing scheduled in two weeks. bottom line CYA.

[roland stockham]

Owners are, and should be liable for the cost of wreck removal. That has always been the case. If the wreck is on the bottom and not a hazard to navigation or a pollution risk it does not need to be removed.
Compulsory insurance is another issue. Cant be done in uncontrolled waters under the 'free practique' rule. A few countries like Mexico do insist on insurance to enter port but that is the law of the individual country. There is no mechanism for making that any sort of international law.

[Captain Graham]

Originally Posted by elcappytan

I have a little 20-20 hind sight for all these boaters out there on the subject of abandon boat's. One of my best friend's sold his 25' chris craft that didn't run and needed a lot of work real cheap on craig's list. The buyer towed the boat out and anchored it. The new owner must have decided it was going to be to much work to rebuild it and just left the boat on anchor. The boat eventually sunk and FWC came after the last registered owner which was my friend. The new owner never registered the boat. Here's the lesson learned. When you sell a boat make sure you have a copy of the bill of sale. My friend didn't and he's on the hook for salvaging the boat. The new owner says he never bought the boat so it's a he said, she said pissing contest and it's not looking good for my friend. He's been to court twice and has another hearing scheduled in two weeks. bottom line CYA.

Thank you very much.

[CapnBazza]

“Should wreck owners be held accountable?” - Yes. But why conflate the question with insurance?

[valhalla360]

In principal absolutely.

The problem is people being judgement proof...either they have no funds or they exit the country... so as the old saying goes, you can't get blood out of a turnip.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by CapnBazza

“Should wreck owners be held accountable?” - Yes. But why conflate the question with insurance?

Because requiring insurance is easier than every jurisdiction receiving an advance deposit.

How else could accountability be cost-effectively be enforced?

[Denny Vitton]

If the boating community does not step up in an effort to stop the dumping of derelict boats in Florida waters and in waters of other states, local and state governments officials will!! Water site land owner and community leader are all working [hard] on ways to stop us from anchoring. They are tired of spending tax payers dollars to clean up this mess.
We as boaters need to let those whom have boats that are derelict or nearly derelict, that they need to do something. Boats with no working motor, no working sails, questionable anchor line and the list goes on need to be told that they are the problem. In my small community one guy's house boat sank three time before it was finely removed. By the way the two 30'+/- power boats which were tied to this house boat all sunk, one after another. I know of snowbirds that throw out the anchor and leave for six months or more. Not right!!!
I live in a boating community mostly made up of day use boater that fish, medium size power boater and some sailors that all want to prohibit anchoring period.
We [the boating community] needs to join together with responsible governmental official to work out sensible anchoring rules. If we don't the days of anchoring are getting shorter.

[jmschmidt]

Owners/operators are legally responsible under international law. Most if not all marinas require liability insurance for this and environmental damage, as to most countries while operating in their territorial waters.

Now finding the culprits, prosecuting them and collecting their money if they have any, is the trick. You can get blood out of stone.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

In principal absolutely.

The problem is people being judgement proof...either they have no funds or they exit the country... so as the old saying goes, you can't get blood out of a turnip.

We had a 40' houseboat stuck in front of our place in Florida for over a year. LEOs (FWC and county) did their absolute best, but somehow the owner slithered through the legal system without being held accountable. (The prosecutor to whom I spoke had no idea how that could possibly have happened - but that's another topic.)


But the county stepped in and, with the help of a state grant, had the boat removed; and I am informed that they will go after the owner for the cost. If he does not pay, he will be unable to register any vehicle (including autos) in the state of Florida until he does.


So there can be some accountability, though how much effect it has remains to be seen. I suppose the owner could leave the state - I don't know if he has ties here or not - but at least it's something.


And it's hard to know what this particular owner will do. The reason this boat went aground is that the owner tried to tow it up the river.


In 30 knots of wind.


With a jet ski.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by bill352

We had a 40' houseboat stuck in front of our place in Florida for over a year. LEOs (FWC and county) did their absolute best, but somehow the owner slithered through the legal system without being held accountable. (The prosecutor to whom I spoke had no idea how that could possibly have happened - but that's another topic.)


But the county stepped in and, with the help of a state grant, had the boat removed; and I am informed that they will go after the owner for the cost. If he does not pay, he will be unable to register any vehicle (including autos) in the state of Florida until he does.

So there can be some accountability, though how much effect it has remains to be seen. I suppose the owner could leave the state - I don't know if he has ties here or not - but at least it's something.


And it's hard to know what this particular owner will do. The reason this boat went aground is that the owner tried to tow it up the river.


In 30 knots of wind.


With a jet ski.

No sign of accountability in your story. The owner hasn't paid a penny to date. I'll give you 10 to 1 odds, the state never sees a penny.

Also, there's nothing to indicate he lives in the state or owns a car in the state...even if he does, this is the type who will just drive without a license, registration or insurance.

Looks like as a local tax payer footed the bill for the removal plus a lot of time spent by public officials on a suit that will go nowhere.

No saying it's right...just the way it is.

[Island Time O25]

Its like the garbage dumped by the roadside - not legal, not moral and not pleasant to deal with. But we can either b***h about it or have it cleaned up while occasionally catching another culprit and greatly publicizing such catches.

IMO our laws should treat all items left/abandoned at public places as garbage to be disposed of.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by elcappytan

I have a little 20-20 hind sight for all these boaters out there on the subject of abandon boat's. One of my best friend's sold his 25' chris craft that didn't run and needed a lot of work real cheap on craig's list. The buyer towed the boat out and anchored it. The new owner must have decided it was going to be to much work to rebuild it and just left the boat on anchor. The boat eventually sunk and FWC came after the last registered owner which was my friend. The new owner never registered the boat. Here's the lesson learned. When you sell a boat make sure you have a copy of the bill of sale. My friend didn't and he's on the hook for salvaging the boat. The new owner says he never bought the boat so it's a he said, she said pissing contest and it's not looking good for my friend. He's been to court twice and has another hearing scheduled in two weeks. bottom line CYA.

This is the reality of where most of the “Derelict” boats come from that fill the anchorages, boats are required by law to be registered by the current owner, yet are not, so that is why requiring Insurence wouldn’t work, and I’d bet would increase our Insurence bills, even though we all have Insurence currently that covers wreck removal and environmental clean up