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Old 07-04-2016, 09:09   #1
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Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

A second potential Viking site in Newfoundland dating from 800-1300 AD has been discovered at Point Rosee on the SW coast. Along with L'Anse Aux Meadows on the NE coast of Newfoundland and the recent discovery of artifiacts on Baffin Island, Point Rosee has the potential to be the third confirmed site of the Vikings presence in the New World. Space archeologist, Sarah Parcak, found the site using satellite imagery--a technique she used to discover archeological sites in the Middle East. The presence of potential turf walls and bog iron at the Point Rosee site will be further explored this Summer. Here's one of the many articles detailing the find. Good luck and safe sailing.
Satellite Images Reveal Possible Viking Settlement in Canada
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:18   #2
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

I was watching that on Nova last night, being an old man I fell asleep though.
Use of satellites was interesting
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:33   #3
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

And Hudson River USA: Ruins of Viking Settlement Discovered near Hudson River World News Daily Report

A Viking spear point was unearthed at Sodus Point on Lake Ontario, "historians" figure it was traded and that's how it found it's way inland.
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:42   #4
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I was watching that on Nova last night, being an old man I fell asleep though.
Use of satellites was interesting
I must not be too old since I fell asleep, errrr, nodded off, but woke up a couple of times and I did see the last part of the show.

I was annoyed at the show though. It sounded like and was edited like so many of the "history" shows on Discovery and History channels where they try to add drama to the show, repeat scenes, etc. I think the two hour show could have been done in an hour and provided the exact same information.

This sort of false drama and repeat editing to increase the runtime of a show is one of the reasons we cut the cord to pay TV...

Other than that, it was a good show.

Even without the photos with 10 inch resolution and infrared, you can see many things on Google Earth that are very interesting. Looking at the Shetlands there are some very old foundations/structures that can be seen that almost certainly are not "modern."

Later,
Dan
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:59   #5
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

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Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
And Hudson River USA: Ruins of Viking Settlement Discovered near Hudson River World News Daily Report

A Viking spear point was unearthed at Sodus Point on Lake Ontario, "historians" figure it was traded and that's how it found it's way inland.
T,
Thanks for the link on the Hudson River site. I have never heard of this one before. I'm going to explore this further. Best, Rognvald
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:19   #6
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

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Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
And Hudson River USA: Ruins of Viking Settlement Discovered near Hudson River World News Daily Report

A Viking spear point was unearthed at Sodus Point on Lake Ontario, "historians" figure it was traded and that's how it found it's way inland.

T,
The story about the Hudson River comes from a fake news site(World News Daily Report?)that publishes fantastic stories. Here's what Snopes said:

"World News Daily Report is a news and political satire web publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within worldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.' Best, Rognvald
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:59   #7
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

Also watched the Nova show last night and managed to stay awake. Found it interesting on the discussion of the sat tech and the building of Viking ships and navigation.

On the site discovery, and using my memory only, I recall several points of evidence that were analysed. The expert on Viking earthen walls stated the pattern of light and dark earth was similar but would not state conclusively that it was viking. Later in the show I believe they stated the pattern could not be used as evidence of Viking settlement.

The seeds studied were determined to be 18th century by carbon dating.

What they thought was smelted iron, and the largest artifact, turned out to be a rock.

The artifact thought to be slag, a byproduct of smelting, turned out to be iron ore. But still interesting that it had been burned to remove impurities, a prerequisite step before smelting.

They also had a large rock cracked from heat and an ash layer.

And finally, in the field they showed what they described to possibly be the head of a nail. However, if I recall correctly it wasn't mentioned again in the show.

The show seemed to conclude it was a Viking site based primarily on the iron ore that had been heated to purify, sorry can't remember the proper term. And secondarily somewhat on the earthen pattern even though the expert was not entirely convinced.

Just my recollections on the show less than twenty four hours later and subject to usual foibles of memory. And not an intention to say it was or was not a Viking site. Happy to believe it was, as when I visited Denmark and the Netherlands I meet many people who easily appeared to be long lost cousins.
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Old 07-04-2016, 11:17   #8
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

Here are two links to sites that update information about the Point Rosee site. Excavation, subsequent to the NOVA show, has found more items that seem to confirm the presence of a Norse settlement and iron working. Including 28 pounds of confirmed slag from iron production.

National Geographic Article
Discovery Could Rewrite History of Vikings in New World

Another online Archeology Site:
Evidence for Vikings in Canada Grows with Surprising Find of Ironworking Site in Newfoundland | Ancient Origins
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Old 08-04-2016, 07:20   #9
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

It amazes me why the Vikings would choose the most unhospitable areas to try and eek out an existence, were they suckers for punishment? I live here and The west coast of Newfoundland, specifically the tip of the Northern peninsula, would have been an extremely difficult area for habitation. Winters drag on summer is but a blink and the winds can be brutal. Coastal ice must also have impacted them greatly as on average they would have been land locked for a good 6 months, The native Beothuks ( sadly gone) did not help their situation either. Even with todayís living standards you require a special hardiness to live up that way. it is a beautiful part of the world but I can see why they finally gave up and moved on realizing this canít be the Vinland they were looking for.
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:09   #10
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

I watched the program on bbc last night,very interesting,one of my friends martin rondaval dale was briefly intervieved,showing off the flexibility of one of the longboats at the Denmark Viking musem where he works as a shipwright.

the satellite technology might also prove useful for finding ancient shipwreaks on the shoreline in remote locations methinks,could be very useful for treasure hunters.......
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:26   #11
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

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It amazes me why the Vikings would choose the most unhospitable areas to try and eek out an existence, were they suckers for punishment? I live here and The west coast of Newfoundland, specifically the tip of the Northern peninsula, would have been an extremely difficult area for habitation. Winters drag on summer is but a blink and the winds can be brutal. Coastal ice must also have impacted them greatly as on average they would have been land locked for a good 6 months, The native Beothuks ( sadly gone) did not help their situation either. Even with today’s living standards you require a special hardiness to live up that way. it is a beautiful part of the world but I can see why they finally gave up and moved on realizing this can’t be the Vinland they were looking for.

Great question, Nick. The period of Viking exploration in the New World coincided with what is termed by scientists as the "Medieval Warm Period" or the "Medieval Maximum" when temperatures in Iceland, Greenland and Newfoundland were warmer than normal and permitted farming in areas that before and later would not support an agrarian industry. This warm period was at the height of the Viking explorations from 900AD to 1280AD. The climate conditions you experience today in Newfoundland are significantly colder and less temperate than during the Viking period. In fact, the reason that Greenland, a successful Norse colony for 300 years, disappeared was because farming and animal husbandry were no longer viable and basic sustenance of the local population became impossible. And, skeletal remains from that later period show severe malnutrition and a diminishment of the overall height of the remaining inhabitants. Most returned to Iceland or Norway by the 13-14th centuries(beginning of the Little Ice Age) and Greenland was abandoned and left to the indigenous people. So, in the case of Newfoundland, it was not the cold you experience today that contributed to the abandonment of their colonies, but rather the aggressive indigenous tribes that constantly raided and attacked the settlements. As you know, when you move further South, the weather becomes progressively warmer and Point Rosee would have been an excellent site for exploration of the Gulf Of St Lawrence and further south. Hope this was helpful. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:56   #12
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

I also watched that show last night. What struck me was the participant's lack of mention how much warmer the climate was at the time of Vikings' Greenland/Iceland/North America initial explorations which answers a lot of questions. Also the "archeologists" in the show seemed more amateur than professional but I guess many discoveries are made by persistent amateurs anyway and "professionals" often overlook things and clues which don't fit their pre-conceived notions of what they should find where and when.

To anticipate those who dismiss Vikings' discovery of North America as a historical dead end fluke I would point out our own Moon landings which seemingly did not lead to anything so far yet (as in permanent settlements or more permanent exploration) it's considered one of the momentous moments of our times. Similarly, Vikings' exploits 1000 years ago while not picked up by those outside of their society were widely known in Scandinavia (as reflected in their sagas, etc) and that knowledge eventually, 500 years later, filtered down to the rest of Europe and IMO contributed to the push for the Western route to the Orient.

It is also reasonable to predict that many more sights will be found up and down East Coast of NA if we have researchers skilled at what they should be looking at for clues. If we put ourselves in the Viking state of mind and figure out what would entice them to land and stay and what the land looked like 1000 years ago we can predict with more certainty the possible landing sights.

Being from Greenland and Iceland they were first and foremost looking for valuable wood to bring home (IMO the original reason for these explorations). Second they would prefer sights with abundant fisheries and fowl for immediate provisioning and salting for future use on the way home. Third they needed to be in places where they could easily obtain iron ore for smelting to manufacture boat nails, swords, knives, etc. Find where these three factors were present as of 1000AD and you'll increase the chances of finding Viking artifacts manyfold.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:33   #13
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

There is another credible site in Newfoundland called Sops's Arm on the East Coast. Archeologists found credible evidence of Viking hunting pits identical to those used in Norway in the 11th Century AD. The interesting facet of the use of satellite navigation is discovering the presence of potential archeological sites that would be difficult if not impossible to discover by physical exploration alone. Newfoundland is proving to be an archeological hotbed for Viking History. Here's an excellent academic article on the Sop's Arm site.
https://www.researchgate.net/.../234...ling_into_Vinl...
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:46   #14
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

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It amazes me why the Vikings would choose the most unhospitable areas to try and eek out an existence, were they suckers for punishment? I live here and The west coast of Newfoundland, specifically the tip of the Northern peninsula, would have been an extremely difficult area for habitation. Winters drag on summer is but a blink and the winds can be brutal. Coastal ice must also have impacted them greatly as on average they would have been land locked for a good 6 months, The native Beothuks ( sadly gone) did not help their situation either. Even with todayís living standards you require a special hardiness to live up that way. it is a beautiful part of the world but I can see why they finally gave up and moved on realizing this canít be the Vinland they were looking for.
The show addressed this. For a number of years Vikings had large settlments on Greenland, until the diminished agricultural yield forced a society that was primarily agricultural to increasing supplement with seal hunting. At some point the Vikings just pulled out and moved on (or moved back) in search of greener pastures.

The show presented evidence to support their theory that while the more Northern sites were, for a time, settled by Vikings until the area became too inhospitable, that the Viking settlements in further south had to compete with established indigineous populations. For a time, they traded and even settled, but eventually they were repulsed by the larger indigineous population.

It is interesting to consider the Viking stories in light of other failed settlement efforts such as Roanoake, and the troubles at Jamestown. It would seem that viewed from a broad historical perspective that the europeans, although faced with a number of failures, kept at it until they established "beach-heads" which enabled further colonization. This is not the process of a single expedition, but rather something that unfolded over much of the millenium since the viking expansion.
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Old 08-04-2016, 10:06   #15
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Re: Second Potential Viking Site Found in Newfoundland

I grew up on the south coat of Newfoundland. We as kids were told by our elders that there were vikings in the area long ago. I don't really know how our elders came by that information though.
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