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Old 21-09-2013, 14:46   #31
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Greenpeace once again got their 15 minutes of fame. You need to realize foreign laws are different and any sovereign country has the right to enforce them.

Much as I disrespect a lot that Putin's Russia is doing, I fully support Russia's right to enforce their laws in their territory.

The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that some of the idealists who go on these Greenpeace voyages recognize there are consequences to actions.
"I never worry about actions ,only inactions" Winston Churchhill ..
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:13   #32
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

avb3, A closer look at the organization might help allay your cynicism. It is certainly not a perfect organization but as GBNow pointed at these "publicity stunts" as you disparagingly call them are at the core of their effectiveness in fighting environmental abuse in how they highlight these abuses. I have no problem that these actions also are used as effective fundraising tools as they do not rely on corporate sponsorship.
The only reason I get into this is that they are in so many ways one of the defenders of our way of life as sailors who love and respect the oceans. Peace and love

BTW... don't underestimate GPs international power... they are easily in their weight level on this one
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:31   #33
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avb3, A closer look at the organization might help allay your cynicism. It is certainly not a perfect organization but as GBNow pointed at these "publicity stunts" as you disparagingly call them are at the core of their effectiveness in fighting environmental abuse in how they highlight these abuses. I have no problem that these actions also are used as effective fundraising tools as they do not rely on corporate sponsorship.
The only reason I get into this is that they are in so many ways one of the defenders of our way of life as sailors who love and respect the oceans. Peace and love

BTW... don't underestimate GPs international power... they are easily in their weight level on this one
Just because I disparage Greenpeace's activities, doesn't mean that I don't understand environmental issues. There are many legitimate and effective environmental organizations such as the World Wildlife Fund which I referenced earlier, as well as numerous national organizations that are respect.

I sat on the board of one of those national organizations in Canada, the Canadian Wildlife Federation, for 3 years. I also sat on province's endangered species board for 14 years. I understand wildlife and environmental issues.

I also understand how much more effective it is to lobby and work behind the scenes, then grand standing to the public.

I have little to no respect organizations like Greenpeace or Sea Shepherd.

There's a reason that groups like the World Wildlife Fund and Sierra Club, are members of the International Union the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN, and Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd are not.... credibility.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:57   #34
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As much as GP or Sea Shepherd may lack credibility, imho they do a very important job: get general public more aware of environmental issues. The more people are aware, the more they can participate in resolving these issues.

Disclaimer: I'm a long time supporter of Sea Shepherd, Cousteau, and Rob Stewart (Sharkwater). If not for them, I would not be interested in current issues surrounding life in our oceans. Granted, I also do admire and follow Sylvia Earle who is the champion of our oceans' health and I learnt a lot following her.
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:25   #35
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Well the French blew them up , didnt seem, to soften their cough. The Russians will be very careful with Greenpeace wait and see

Dave
Yes they did, it was the Rainbow Warrior! And later they paid $$$$ for the destroyed vessel. JERKS!

Let us wait and see how much the Russians will pay for the inconvenience they caused to the Greenies

Many of us are getting fed up with so called environmental activism! It is ongoing to extremes here in our country. A few years ago natural gas was seen by the whackies as the fuel for the future. Then fracking suddenly flooded the market with inexpensive gas that could make this country's products and goods highly competitive in the world market.

Not so fast claim the whackies!!! So they next appealed to the Great Leader who sic'ed the EPA onto the frackers. And the battle continues! Why in good sense should the American public be forced to pay $0.06/kilowatt for electricity when they should be paying $0.25/kilowatt instead????
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:36   #36
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

AVB3...
I never said you lack an understanding of environmental issues though I will say that you don't seem to have much of an understanding of the role of activism in bringing about justice. I completely disagree that lobbying and working behind the scenes is more effective than direct action. Both are necessary but direct action of the sort practiced by GP and others do is both legitimate and vital.
Case in point...
The Disney Corporation for many years sourced it's toy packaging from a company that produced cardboard from an operation that was clear cutting virgin Indonesian hardwood forests at an alarming rate and so destroying prime Orangutan and Sumatran Tiger habitat.
RAN (Rainforest Action Network) had been engaged in dialogue with Disney for two or three years without any action from them so it was determined that some sort of leverage had to be established. They came to GP asked some staffers if we would help out in Burbank by dressing up as Mickey (me)and Minnie and chaining ourselves to the front gate while two people climbed into the overhead marquee and hung a banner during the morning commute.
Two hours later we were in jail for tresspass where we spent the day and after media and public pressure they returned to the table. A year later we had a written agreement from Disney that they would find another, more sustainable source for their toy packaging.
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:47   #37
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Originally Posted by CrazyRu View Post
Typical multilevel joke, published in russian media
Dog looks like Putin, found on Krestchatnik.
(Kreschtnik is broadway of St.Petersburg)
(St.Petersburg is long rivalry of Moscow, they change Capitol status, depending on the epoch)
(Dog looks like Putin)
?? ????????? ????? ??????, ??????? ?? ?????? - ???? 1 | ????????????
This is hilarious, but needs some explanation for non-Russians on this forum.

First of all, the dog really does look like Putin:

Click image for larger version

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The first comment is a quote from Sobachoe Serdtse (Bulkagov's ingenious "A Dog's Heart"): "On, eto on! Tol'ko, svoloch' -- opyat' obros" (Him! It's Him! Only, the bastard . . . again he's gotten overgrown".)

A famous doctor from Tsarist times, lost in his experiments, hardly notices that the Bol'sheviks have taken over. He tries transplanting a dog's heart into a human. This human gradually takes on dog's qualities like chasing cats, scratching himself, etc. Then he meets up with the Bol'shevik gangs in power and finds himself in his element, soon becoming a functionary, half-dog, half-human (like the rest of them ).
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:59   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post
AVB3...
I never said you lack an understanding of environmental issues though I will say that you don't seem to have much of an understanding of the role of activism in bringing about justice. I completely disagree that lobbying and working behind the scenes is more effective than direct action. Both are necessary but direct action of the sort practiced by GP and others do is both legitimate and vital.
Case in point...
The Disney Corporation for many years sourced it's toy packaging from a company that produced cardboard from an operation that was clear cutting virgin Indonesian hardwood forests at an alarming rate and so destroying prime Orangutan and Sumatran Tiger habitat.
RAN (Rainforest Action Network) had been engaged in dialogue with Disney for two or three years without any action from them so it was determined that some sort of leverage had to be established. They came to GP asked some staffers if we would help out in Burbank by dressing up in Mickey (me) and Minnie and chaining ourselves to the front gate while two people climbed into the overhead marquee and hung a banner during the morning commute.
Two hours later we were in jail for tress pass where we spent the day and after media and public pressure they returned to the table. A year later we had a written agreement from Disney that they would find another, more sustainable source for their toy packaging.
Yet Greenpeace itself is sometimes totally oblivious to local issues, preferring to concentrate on the feel good issues from far away

Example, a few years ago I had a couple of young, obviously idealistic, girls come to my door seeking funds for Greenpeace to be used in their anti-whaling programs.

I asked them how much work Greenpeace was doing on endangered species in our jurisdiction. Specifically, I wanted to know how much the funds at their reasoning was going to be used locally.

No, I already knew the answer. Nothing. I spent about 50 minutes questioning and educating the two young girls. My purpose was two fold first of all I truly did want them to be educated. Secondly if they were at my doorstep for almost an hour, they are not going to be collecting any money from anyone else.

You see, I strongly object for an organization like Greenpeace to be collecting money and not investing in it for use locally. As I said I know the influence and impact I have had working behind the scenes. Greenpeace has done nothing but grandstand in my province.

I have no use for grand standers.
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:13   #39
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Originally Posted by Butler View Post
AVB3...
I never said you lack an understanding of environmental issues though I will say that you don't seem to have much of an understanding of the role of activism in bringing about justice. I completely disagree that lobbying and working behind the scenes is more effective than direct action. Both are necessary but direct action of the sort practiced by GP and others do is both legitimate and vital.

OH, trying to wrap steel cables around Japanese whaling vessels' propellers is legitimate??? Who gave Greenpiece the authority to be a "world enforcer" to enforce THEIR rules onto other nation's vessels in the high seas?

I fault the Japanese captain for not ramming and sinking the environmental trash!

Foggy
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:19   #40
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Originally Posted by foggysail View Post

OH, trying to wrap steel cables around Japanese whaling vessels' propellers is legitimate??? Who gave Greenpiece the authority to be a "world enforcer" to enforce THEIR rules onto other nation's vessels in the high seas?

I fault the Japanese captain for not ramming and sinking the environmental trash!

Foggy
To be accurate, that wasn't Greenpeace that was Sea Shepard. Paul Watson used to be with Greenpeace , but he didn't think they were radical enough.
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:35   #41
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Originally Posted by foggysail View Post

Many of us are getting fed up with so called environmental activism! It is ongoing to extremes here in our country. A few years ago natural gas was seen by the whackies as the fuel for the future. Then fracking suddenly flooded the market with inexpensive gas that could make this country's products and goods highly competitive in the world market.

Not so fast claim the whackies!!! So they next appealed to the Great Leader who sic'ed the EPA onto the frackers. And the battle continues! Why in good sense should the American public be forced to pay $0.06/kilowatt for electricity when they should be paying $0.25/kilowatt instead????
Well...easy to see where you're coming from. I'm all for cheap fuel but fracking is turning out to be a disaster. The talking heads seem to be controlled by Big Oil and many of the new issues are being swept under the rug.

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OH, trying to wrap steel cables around Japanese whaling vessels' propellers is legitimate??? Who gave Greenpiece the authority to be a "world enforcer" to enforce THEIR rules onto other nation's vessels in the high seas?

I fault the Japanese captain for not ramming and sinking the environmental trash!

Foggy
Please point out what other "authority" is going to stop the Japanese from taking an "experimental catch" of whales which are suppose to be protected. You know damn well they are selling the meat.
Please feel free to watch this video of the Japanese slaughtering hundreds of dolphins every year. Then tell me it's ok to do that.
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:47   #42
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
This is hilarious, but needs some explanation for non-Russians on this forum.

First of all, the dog really does look like Putin:

Attachment 67647

The first comment is a quote from Sobachoe Serdtse (Bulkagov's ingenious "A Dog's Heart"): "On, eto on! Tol'ko, svoloch' -- opyat' obros" (Him! It's Him! Only, the bastard . . . again he's gotten overgrown".)

A famous doctor from Tsarist times, lost in his experiments, hardly notices that the Bol'sheviks have taken over. He tries transplanting a dog's heart into a human. This human gradually takes on dog's qualities like chasing cats, scratching himself, etc. Then he meets up with the Bol'shevik gangs in power and finds himself in his element, soon becoming a functionary, half-dog, half-human (like the rest of them ).
Thanks to both of you and for the "local knowledge" on the joke Dock head... VERY funny and fitting!
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:48   #43
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I bet there are a few you might be upset at this picture.

It is just over block for my house. I'm not upset at all because they are not drilling at night.



Click image for larger version

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Old 21-09-2013, 17:50   #44
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Well...easy to see where you're coming from. I'm all for cheap fuel but fracking is turning out to be a disaster. The talking heads seem to be controlled by Big Oil and many of the new issues are being swept under the rug.


Please point out what other "authority" is going to stop the Japanese from taking an "experimental catch" of whales which are suppose to be protected. You know damn well they are selling the meat.
Please feel free to watch this video of the Japanese slaughtering hundreds of dolphins every year. Then tell me it's ok to do that.
Not all agree that fracking is a disaster other than as environmentalists proclaim! The so called methane pollution caused by drilling was just dismissed by the EPA of all people! From the WSJ article this week.... I get the paper:

"
Associated Press
PITTSBURGH — The Environmental Protection Agency has dramatically lowered its estimate of how much of a potent heat-trapping gas leaks during natural gas production, in a shift with major implications for a debate that has divided environmentalists: Does the recent boom in fracking help or hurt the fight against climate change?

Oil and gas drilling companies had pushed for the change, but there have been differing scientific estimates of the amount of methane that leaks from wells, pipelines and other facilities during production and delivery. Methane is the main component of natural gas. "

Now as to whales! I do not give a damn about the Japanese taking whales for food. It was OK for our country to decimate the whale population to near extinction in the 19 and early 20th century. But I do care about pirates and that category fits Greenpiece.

Foggy
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:53   #45
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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To be accurate, that wasn't Greenpeace that was Sea Shepard. Paul Watson used to be with Greenpeace , but he didn't think they were radical enough.
Yup...
There has been some pretty interesting back and forth between these two orgs, eh?
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