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Old 19-09-2013, 20:43   #16
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

Ops, I forgot about another level,obvious to Russians
Heart of dog, by Michael Bulgakov
Heart of a Dog: Frank Galati, Mikhail Bulgakov: 9780822205074: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 19-09-2013, 20:46   #17
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

Greenpeace should remember to fight within their weight level. Using western values and environmental standards is going to get them killed! Phil
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Old 19-09-2013, 20:51   #18
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Greenpeace should remember to fight within their weight level. Using western values and environmental standards is going to get them killed! Phil
Well the French blew them up , didnt seem, to soften their cough. The Russians will be very careful with Greenpeace wait and see

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Old 19-09-2013, 20:51   #19
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Greenpeace should remember to fight within their weight level. Using western values and environmental standards is going to get them killed! Phil
Just imagine Greenpeace vessel full of foreign citizens boarding platform in Golf Of Mexico...
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:38   #20
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Greenpeace once again got their 15 minutes of fame. You need to realize foreign laws are different and any sovereign country has the right to enforce them.

Much as I disrespect a lot that Putin's Russia is doing, I fully support Russia's right to enforce their laws in their territory.

The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that some of the idealists who go on these Greenpeace voyages recognize there are consequences to actions.
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:53   #21
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

GP behaved like eco-terrorists - send them on vacation to Guantanamo
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Old 21-09-2013, 13:06   #22
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

My experience with GP showed me that they are not a naive bunch and have plenty of experience on the international scene. There was tremendous risk for them in doing this and experience tells me that the risk was understood. As would be the case in armchairing sailors who push the envelope I think GP deserves better than a coupke of posts here.
They have done good for the oceans we love at sometimes (as in this case) great risk. I think the best evidence of this can be found in their role in stopping nuclear testing at sea.
At the risk of sounding high handed I'd like to recommend that we put effort into pressuring our representatives to aggressively pressure the Russians to release GP activists.
At least take a closer look at the organization and their record.
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Old 21-09-2013, 13:14   #23
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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we put effort into pressuring our representatives to aggressively pressure the Russians to release GP activists.
Pressure Russians? Are you kidding? They had balls not to release Snowden - and they would be afraid now and will immediately release the GP?

They broke the law, intentionally. They would face the Russian court ("the most fair court on Earth") and get the sentence. And then (if they behave well and plead guilty) Putin will pardon them. No other way - the laws must be respected.
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Old 21-09-2013, 13:18   #24
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My experience with GP showed me that they are not a naive bunch and have plenty of experience on the international scene. There was tremendous risk for them in doing this and experience tells me that the risk was understood. As would be the case in armchairing sailors who push the envelope I think GP deserves better than a coupke of posts here.
They have done good for the oceans we love at sometimes (as in this case) great risk. I think the best evidence of this can be found in their role in stopping nuclear testing at sea.
At the risk of sounding high handed I'd like to recommend that we put effort into pressuring our representatives to aggressively pressure the Russians to release GP activists.
At least take a closer look at the organization and their record.
I would rather support such a legitimate organization such as the World Wildlife Fund. They are effective and work inside the rules not outside.

I'm not sure what the Russians did wrong. You have number of individuals who violate your sovereign territory, and then choose to trespass and interfere in a legal activity , the drilling of oil.

Don't get me wrong, there are significant and very significant issues with drilling in the arctic. There is nothing that this rabble-rousing by Greenpeace does to eliminate those issues. If one is a skeptic, one may suspect this incident would be used for fundraising.
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Old 21-09-2013, 13:19   #25
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Pressure Russians? Are you kidding? They had balls not to release Snowden - and they would be afraid now and will immediately release the GP?

They broke the law, intentionally. They would face the Russian court ("the most fair court on Earth") and get the sentence. And then (if they behave well and plead guilty) Putin will pardon them. No other way - the laws must be respected.
I bet they don't get their ship back though.
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Old 21-09-2013, 13:27   #26
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

2 members of Pussy Riot get 2 years in prison for hooliganism.


Wonder what the sentence is for entering the country illegally and breaking into an oil rig? 15 years hard labor?
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Old 21-09-2013, 13:31   #27
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

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Don't get me wrong, there are significant and very significant issues with drilling in the arctic. There is nothing that this rabble-rousing by Greenpeace does to eliminate those issues. If one is a skeptic, one may suspect this incident would be used for fundraising.
Sad really that there are people in this world that see an organisation thats tries to highlight and campaign against environmental damage in this light , really sad.

remember one man terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

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Old 21-09-2013, 13:33   #28
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Sad really that there are people in this world that see an organisation thats tries to highlight and campaign against environmental damage in this light , really sad.

remember one man terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Dave
The World Wildlife Fund is very effective in campaigning for environmental action without getting involved in this type of publicity stunt.
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:00   #29
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

No, SVI I'm not kidding and yes they did break the law and will have to face the consequences in the Russian courts, never said they shouldn't have to. GP also broke the law to stop nuclear testing on the ocean. Whether anyone agrees or not civil disobedience at home or internationally is a long-standing, important and often effective tool in drawing attention to problem and effecting change... this is why I use the analogy of armchairing sailors who push the limits and to advance the sport. In the world of eco-politics they push the envelope and as in this and so many other political arenas I can think of so much positive change that would never have occurred without somebody "breaking the law".

Russia has done nothing wrong in detaining these Americans who were protsting heir drillin g parctices and like GP I'm not so naive as to think that they don't have the right to make legal action.
So because we are cynical about what might be possible in doing whatever we might be able to to get our fellow citizens back home we should just forget about it? Yes, the whole thing will run it's course legally but applying pressure and promoting awareness of these activists situation can only help make sure that comes to pass.
I have a lot of respect for those individuals who have now sacrificed their freedom to help protect our oceans. I would not have the courage..
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:10   #30
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Re: Russians board Arctic Sunrise!

+1 Butler
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