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soverel · 26-08-2014, 10:53

I have been aground and put out anchor only to have rescue company boat pass in front of my bow and cut my anchor line. I think it was intentional. The guy said oh did you have an anchor out. Gee it was the first thing i did when we ran aground. Crossing a bow is bad seamanship IMO.

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GrowleyMonster · 26-08-2014, 12:37

We're you displaying an anchor ball? You are required to display the appropriate lights or day shapes when anchored outside a designated anchorage. Your anchor chain is an unmarked hazard to navigation for which you are responsible, if you do not display an anchor ball in daylight or an anchor light at night. Even if your anchor was not in the channel, it was still in navigable waters, as evidenced by the rescue boat navigating in them. That really is the only thing you have to worry about, I think. The fact of the matter is their help or interference was unwanted and you told them, I am sure, to keep well clear because you were aground. Oh, in fact you should have been displaying appropriate day shapes for vessel aground, as well. The fact that you were aground means you were not able to maneuver as required by the rules or for collision avoidance, but you technically must advise nearby vessels of your status with day shapes or lights.

On the rare occasion that these things go to court, it is very rare that one party is found wholly at fault. Usually both parties are found at fault for some percentage. But I think the insurance companies will work it out and you won't be paying for any of the idiots self inflicted damages... just figure on not getting anything for your anchor chain.

Just my opinion, guaranteed to be worth exactly what you paid for it, and YMMV.

dannc · 26-08-2014, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

We're you displaying an anchor ball? You are required to display the appropriate lights or day shapes when anchored outside a designated anchorage. Your anchor chain is an unmarked hazard to navigation for which you are responsible, if you do not display an anchor ball in daylight or an anchor light at night. Even if your anchor was not in the channel, it was still in navigable waters, as evidenced by the rescue boat navigating in them. ...

The OP stated in his first post that he contacted the USCG on radio, most likely this is how the Wanna Be Pirates knew about his situation and that he anchored and put up an anchor ball.

Later,
Dan

duck55 · 26-08-2014, 21:00

We did put out our anchor ball before the anchor went out. Before the guy hit our chain we had our anchor light on. I think under rule 30 I was fine with a single light or our anchor ball with us <50m and being aground.

GrowleyMonster · 26-08-2014, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck55

We did put out our anchor ball before the anchor went out. Before the guy hit our chain we had our anchor light on. I think under rule 30 I was fine with a single light or our anchor ball with us <50m and being aground.

Yeah you good, then.

Lubber4now · 27-08-2014, 12:09

Reminds me of HH aboard Renown under the guns of the Spanish fort.

Out with the kedge anchor!

Fire the guns to rock her lads!

hellosailor · 27-08-2014, 14:12

No one mentions which state, nation, or planet all of this took place on and that could be relevant. Presumably USCG means in US jurisdiction.

Offhand, the process of threatening or filing a frivolous or wrongful insurance claim and attempting to force action or payment from you, might qualify as extortion.

And the unconsented heaving of a line to your vessel, which line contacted your vessel, would constitute a trespass. If you were waving them off, it would be a first degree trespass and there's always a fine for that.

The local prosecutor (District Attorney, etc.) probably would beg you not to file those charges but it the local USCG also says these "salvors" are dirtbags...the DA might be happy to render assistance and bring charges against them.

As others have said, don't bother with any direct contact with these people. Let the authorities do it. Make sure that your insurer has a clear description of the incident and your clear instructions not to make any payment, as you did nothing wrong. And let them know that you will be filing criminal charges against the "salvor" for their extortion and trespass. (Which will pretty much ensure that your insurer doesn't try to pay off the extortion and bury it.)

psneeld · 27-08-2014, 14:52

I won't defend all or any towing company or captain or or towboat except me and the boat I run.

If I run over an anchor line where the guy is yelling "don't help me" ...the last thing I want want to do is damage my boat and certainly not disable my towboat wrapping an anchor rode around it for awaile.

It could mean losing money on some other job or not getting getting to a paid member in time and losing that membership.

I have seen thousands of these cases brought before me as an operations officer in the USCG required to monitor assistance towing in my area and then the last 12 years as an assistance towing captain.

A large part of the cases I have seen...the boat in trouble who says "I'm in the channel" has NO CLUE that they aren't in the channel and thus aground. So a lot of stories are suspect from the word go. My response to many needing assistance who get an attitude is..."I'm not the one aground or in trouble or disabled"...."you may want to think who here should be calling the shots"....

A large number of cases are mixed and bad communications with distressed vessels and the approach by the towboat is difficult enough that if aground on a lee shore...it's difficult enough to approach and many times the anchor lines are an issue...so defending the towboat is irrelavent without a great picture of what all was going on.

But before we vilify assistance towers ....and along the entire Atlantic Seaboard (while it may be possible)...I have never seen a triple outboard towboat as the cost/efficiency doesn't make sense. Could be...anyone have a pic of a triple outboard towboat?

But again...could have been a bad captain, a pirate like towboat company, etc...etc...

But Based on the industry as a whole...those are way fewer than the hundreds of thousands of boaters out there that get themselves in trouble...a tow company gets involves and all of a sudden it's ALWAYS the towboats fault?

I think not otherwise the USCG would step in and mandate restrictions and improvements against the towing fleets and they haven't so far.

While I have no reason to disbelieve the OP, some of the story sounds shaky to a very experience person in the field, and like many boating mishaps I have seen...there's almost always more to the story....

duck55 · 27-08-2014, 17:45

It happened right out side of CT.

I'm not going to stick around to file charges and sure not going to be around for it to go to court. I have sent my insurance company for our camera security system and copies of the report from the USCG.

Triple outboard fire boat that looked about the same.

I will say that it's my fault for not having updated charts as backup when part of my electronics went out. There was a discussion on the radio with the USCG of where I was, where the channel is at, and my plan to float off unassisted using an anchor.

How do you describe a professional?
Someone in rescue situation when they do not stop to take a quick scene servery before acting.
Someone that would power 5' off the bow of a boat with an anchor ball up.

I know there are lots of good companies out there and have seen a lot of them working over the years. But like every other profession out there it only takes a few bad apples to change the way people think about the rest of them.

rwidman · 27-08-2014, 18:13

Maybe the tow boat operator had a couple beers with lunch and they affected him more than they though they would.

Seriously what training is required to be a tow boat operator? Is there any testing or licensing required? I find it hard to believe someone with any experience at all would come close enough to the bow of an anchored boat to catch his running gear on the rode.

Trying to blame the owner of the anchored boat is absurd. The guy hit the rode, it's his fault. He should pay for the rode as well. A lesson to be learned.

onestepcsy37 · 27-08-2014, 19:59

Towboat operators are required to have a licensed captain with a towing endorsement aboard the towboat.
In most circumstances, dont take a line from a towboat until you have agreed on a fee, in writing, unless you have a contract with them such as towboat u.s. or seatow. Once you take their line you could be charged incredibly high fees for very little work.
If you go to the boat u.s. website they have a good writeup on this subject.
Just as an aside, another good reason to have all chain rode!

autumnbreeze27 · 27-08-2014, 20:39

My first boat (power), and I had a transmission fail between Dana Point and Oceanside. I didn't know about tow insurance until then. A newer company talked to me "first" on the radio, so I was their catch. I waited 5 hours while they towed an inflatable from MDR to DP to come get me. The harbor patrol was waiting at the entrance with the established tow company guy and handed the guy a ticket for towing without proper lighting. If the DP guy would have been able to come get me, I would have spent 5 less hours bobbing on the ocean, but they didn't care, they just wanted the money.

GREED.

markpierce · 27-08-2014, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

... You are required to display the appropriate lights or day shapes when anchored outside a designated anchorage. ...

No display is required in a designated special anchorage of which there is only one in the SF estuary (Richardson Bay). Display is required for designated general anchorages of which there are many in the estuary.

Anchor ball displayed as required in a general anchorage:

rwidman · 28-08-2014, 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpierce

..............

Anchor ball displayed as required in a general anchorage:
........... ]

That's what the regulations state. I have never seen a recreational boat anchored and showing an anchor ball. Never.

I'll admit I haven't been around as much as some folks, but I have been around.

So to follow the rules, if you anchor before sundown and don't get underway again until an hour after sunrise you're supposed to show an anchor ball during those times. How many folks actually do that?