Roller Jammed

[AAFMIAMI]

Hello everyone and Happy New year!


I just purchased Abigail and she came with a very jammed RF system.
I did try washing over and over, checking the cable inside the drum and looked for possible tangle on the swivel up mast using a powerful binocular and all my attempts of easily resolving it were unsuccessful.
At this point I would like to get an expert to come see it! Boat is in Atlantic City and I cannot find one! In reality I cannot even find a brand name on mine!
Does any one here know about a rigger tech in Atlantic City? Or happens to know the brand of mine by looking at this picture?

Any help tip or information will be very much appreciated!

Happy Sailing in 2016 for us all!

[skipmac]

First question, will the drum turn at all? If not then I would look first at the bearings in the drum. If it will rotate a turn or so and start binding them maybe upper bearings or halyard wrap around the forestay. When you looked at the top with the binoculars at what point in the testing did you do this? If before any attempt to rotate then probably no wrap anyway. If you were able to turn the drum at all I would look at that point.

Most (many?) RF systems can be disassembled and repaired.

Also, I would recommend using a good penetrating oil like PB Blaster or Kroil to soak the rotating parts on the drum. Water will only wash out salt water deposits and dirt. Any corrosion will need something with a bit more oomph.

[AAFMIAMI]

Hello Skipmac! Thank you so much for your orientation.

No, the drum does not turn free from the entire structure, as I tried turning it with both of my hands I noticed it all (under and above the drum) turned together and by looking the adjustable turnbuckle under the drum I realized it was the only thing moving and the drum was not going anywhere... then I tried rotating the piece (not sure the name for it) where the SS cable gets directed and after going one way and the other a few times it started moving but I do not think it was supposed to move at all because I fond out all I was doing was losing the bolt under the drum which holds that part in the right angle.
I am quite new to all these and working hard to learn fast!

I did not tried lub of any kind but I will follow your advise on that~!
I know for a fact that the previous owned had that RF closed for a few years without touching it at all. That probably did it!

I am also looking for videos of how to take the system apart and fixing it. But I did not find any good ones yet!

Since this is my very first rodeo with this kind of problem, even though it sounds like an easy challenge to resolve and I am very much willing to try another go, I think the right thing to do would be to get an experienced Rigger to come over troubleshot it and show me what was the problem and how it is done!

[skipmac]

Hi AAF

Sounds like you are trying the right things but just to be clear.

Looking at your top photo, the whole drum and the aluminum foil (the piece with the slot in it that the sail slides into) should rotate. The turnbuckle underneath should not rotate at all. Hopefully I'm not being to simple and basic here, stop me if I am, but the way this works, the aluminum foil slides over the forestay, is attached to the reel and that whole bit rotates around the stainless steel wire of the forestay.

If soaking the area with PB Blaster (you can get that at most auto parts stores or even Home Depot) for a day or three doesn't free it up then you might need to start taking things apart.

[Time2Go]

Years ago while helping a friend on his new to him boat
we incountered a similar problem While attempting a sorts of things
the forestay parted. We quickly ran the main
halyard forward to act as a temporary stay. If the drum is totally jammed the forestay might be toast under it
The drum just abraided the forestay until it parted.
Lucky to not lose the rig.
Something to be mindfull of and look at.
Cheers

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

Years ago while helping a friend on his new to him boat
we incountered a similar problem While attempting a sorts of things
the forestay parted. We quickly ran the main
halyard forward to act as a temporary stay. If the drum is totally jammed the forestay might be toast under it
The drum just abraided the forestay until it parted.
Lucky to not lose the rig.
Something to be mindfull of and look at.
Cheers

If the RF has been sitting for years it would be very worthwhile to find out the age of the standing rigging. From the description of the problem there could easily be a problem with the wire or corrosion under the foil. At this point disassembly and a complete inspection of the whole RF and wire would be prudent.

[um saudade]

This looks like first generation Hood. If it is, they were notoriously undependable. Unwrap the sail. It is not fun but it’s do-able. Then drop the jib so you can see what you are dealing with. Depending on how old this is, could mean almost anything causing the issue but look for simple things first.

Don’t go in and spray everything full of some lube or magic potion until you find out what the issue is!

Even if it wrapped the halyard around the stay on top they will usually unwrap ok.

I have seen more issue on Hood units with the top bearing being the culprit rather than the drum bearings but my experience is limited. I think what you have has a big plastic bearing on the top of the foil. When it gets old and worn it jams the foil to the stay and nothing moves.

When the sail is off the foil you can determine what part of the foil won’t turn. Then you should be able to get to the screws that lock the foil into the lower unit. Get it apart there if you can. If you can’t get it to turn freely you will have to take everything off the stay and that means disconnecting the stay at the bottom and things start getting complicated. You will probably need to get to the mast head one way or the other because even if you get it to turn, until you actually inspect the top bearing you can’t trust it to turn when you need it to.

Time to start your experience in mast climbing. It will come eventually, just do it!

Good luck

[Kenomac]

It's most likely plugged up with dirt. Get a spray lubricant and spray a bunch of it into the bearings, the upper by lowering the halyard and sail and the base drum unit. Wrap a towel around the bearings when you do this. Lots of dirt will wash out as you spray and eventually, you'll be able to spin the fittings. No need the climb the mast, just lower the sail and bring the upper furling unit down to you, unless it has already wrapped around at the top.... then you'll need to climb up in order to free the halyard.

Not a big deal, takes less then half an hour to fix.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by um saudade

... Don’t go in and spray everything full of some lube or magic potion until you find out what the issue is! ...

It probably has Torlon ball bearings, which can absorb the lube', swell up, causing friction, and eventually even jam.

Some Hood Seafurl instructions:

705/810/915LD ➥ http://www.almacennaval.com/uploads/...S%20MANUAL.pdf

2636 ➥ http://www.olajedatos.com/ltp/Manual...eaFurl2636.pdf

3250 ➥ http://www.marlow-hunter.com/export/...5%20MANUAL.pdf

See Brion Toss' excellent advice:
➥ http://www.briontoss.com/education/a.../miscnov03.htm

[Crew of Turning]

It is a Hood RF, we have one on our boat. Bearings were replaced in 2005 before a trek to the Bahamas and back. It is now 2016...RF is working just fine (laid up now for Canadian winter). Now almost 40 years old and still robust and serviceable. Go after the bearings on the drum. I don't have the SKF part number, sorry.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by GordMay

It probably has Torlon ball bearings, which can absorb the lube', swell up, causing friction, and eventually even jam.

Some Hood Seafurl instructions:

705/810/915LD ➥ http://www.almacennaval.com/uploads/...S%20MANUAL.pdf

2636 ➥ http://www.olajedatos.com/ltp/Manual...eaFurl2636.pdf

3250 ➥ http://www.marlow-hunter.com/export/...5%20MANUAL.pdf

See Brion Toss' excellent advice:
➥ Brion Toss Yacht Riggers Fairleads Newsletter

Gord thanks for posting this. Obviously my recommendation to soak everything in PB Blaster was bad advise. Worse, I would probably have done this on my own gear if in the same situation, possibly making a bad situation worse.

Once again demonstrating that you can teach and old dog new tricks.

[AAFMIAMI]

Hello Everyone!
Nice seeing you all jumping in and helping with expertises and experienced advices!
I am somewhat new to "sailing hardware" problems and all these info are so welcome! More than you can imagine! So THANK YOU!! Each and everyone! Was nice to feel part of such nice group!
Did any of you ever hired a Pro Rigger in the past? How one goes about it? Maybe a full inspection at this point of all standing riggs would be a wise move!