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Old 11-05-2011, 07:03   #16
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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As I read these posts in which firearms are discussed, I see references made to some official or other possibly coming aboard and "finding" an undeclared firearm. Though I have no intentions of carrying a firearm or any other perceivable contraband, I do have concerns about my privacy. While in the waters of the U.S., I know that you can be stopped and checked out, but can you be boarded by police or Coast Guard and searched without officers having probable cause? I guess I see it as driving from one state to another. Just because you drive across state line, you are not subject to searches of your auto. The 4th amendment still exists out on the water, right? Am I missing something or am I reading to much into this?

Thanks Y'all.
You can be inspected for safety and MSD violations without probable cause, but they cannot open lockers and search the non-open portions of the boat. However, it is in your best interest to declare that there are firearms on board if indeed there are and that you legally own them based on the local jusristiction laws.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:26   #17
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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As a UK citizen I find this dilemma over handguns rather interesting. I would have thought that once a handgun is obtained and licenced. That licence would be valid over the whole of the US including territories. Certainly in the UK that is the case. I never realised that individual states had a different gun policy. Most confusing, however I have to say that here in the UK if they found a gun onboard. It would most likely result in the call out of some guys in black jump suits who will shoot you. Then if you haven't died, will give you lots of cash as compensation to keep you quiet.

Tis a strange world
Firearm laws vary state by state. There are first Federal laws (such as no machine guns, silencers, and other NFA regulated devices except for under certain conditions), then state laws (long guns for hunting (can't use an 8 gauge shotgun to hunt ducks anymore), handgun registration (long guns are not registered anywhere in the US that I know of but I may be wrong), open carry laws, concealed carry laws), then local jurisdiction laws (such as Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York City). For handgun carry permits, some states have shall-issue law (35), some are may-issue law (12), and the remaining are no issue states.
Yes very complicated and many laws are under litigation as we speak. However, the second ammendment right to bear arms is a big deal in the US, unlike in Britain where only the criminals can have handguns. States that have shall-issue laws for concealed carry typically have much lower crime rates than states that are may-issue or no-issue.

ps: Here is a chart that shows how things vary state-by-state.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:34   #18
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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they cannot open lockers and search the non-open portions of the boat.
Beware of legal advice over the internet. Sometimes it's just wrong.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:41   #19
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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Beware of legal advice over the internet. Sometimes it's just wrong.
With regard to DNR, State and County police, there is case law in MD supporting my statement.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:06   #20
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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With regard to DNR, State and County police, there is case law in MD supporting my statement.
Can you cite that? I'd be interested in having that aboard
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:10   #21
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

Anyone know if there are similar limitations on how far an otherwise routine USCG search can go?
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:16   #22
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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Can you cite that? I'd be interested in having that aboard
Same law that applies to vehicle search. In view only. For instance, the state and county authorities cannot search the trunk of your car without a warrant. They can hold you till they get a warrant.
This does not apply to USCG.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:20   #23
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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Same law that applies to vehicle search. In view only. For instance, the state and county authorities cannot search the trunk of your car without a warrant. They can hold you till they get a warrant.
This does not apply to USCG.
Nor does it apply to local LEOs! To the best of my knowledge everything is fair game for inspection by law enforcement on the water. Casts a lot of doubt to your post #16
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:32   #24
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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Nor does it apply to local LEOs! To the best of my knowledge everything is fair game for inspection by law enforcement on the water. Casts a lot of doubt to your post #16
Annotated Code of Maryland
Title 1. Department of Natural Resources
Subtitle 2. Natural Resources Police Force



1–204

a…….”every Natural Resources police officer shall have all the powers conferred upon police officers of the State”.



This means they have to ask permission, and if you say no they have to get a warrant.
Been there, done that. (Stopped by County Police for routine check and when they asked if they could inspect my locked cockpit lockers I said no. They then inspected all safety equipment and the head. They then said have a nice day and left.)
Please consult your lawyer.
You may certainly act as you want when stopped. I however, will assert my rights.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:44   #25
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

I do believe you are mistaken sir! A state statute conferring police powers to DNR LEOs does not LIMIT their power! Most coastal states's water cops are also deputized as feds (ICE, ETC).

You may stick your chest out and wave the statute on YOUR boat, but don't advise others to do the same! Fortunately, most people recognize Internet legal opinions from non-lawyers to be worthless, and exercise their own due diligence.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:07   #26
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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You may stick your chest out and wave the statute on YOUR boat, but don't advise others to do the same! Fortunately, most people recognize Internet legal opinions from non-lawyers to be worthless, and exercise their own due diligence.
I don't think he advised anyone to do the same.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:16   #27
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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I don't think he advised anyone to do the same.
Thank you easterly38.

To others:
I originally posted a reply to me from the DNR.
I imparted knowledge based on my experience, and confirmed by MY Lawyer.
I don't want to argue with anyone.
So you may all go pound sand.

Moderator please close this thread.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:32   #28
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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I do believe you are mistaken sir! A state statute conferring police powers to DNR LEOs does not LIMIT their power! Most coastal states's water cops are also deputized as feds (ICE, ETC).

You may stick your chest out and wave the statute on YOUR boat, but don't advise others to do the same! Fortunately, most people recognize Internet legal opinions from non-lawyers to be worthless, and exercise their own due diligence.
Actually, the authority of any law enforcement officer to search, while conferred by statute, is LIMITED by the particular jurisdiction's state & federal constitutions. Those constitutional limits are, in turn, delineated by the courts in their published caselaw. This caselaw only comes about from citizens challenging the reasonableness of law enforcement searches & seizures.

Capngeo provided useful legal information by quoting a letter from MD's DNR. He also cautioned to "[p]lease consult your lawyer," thereby implying that any more specific legal advice should come from an attorney, not just an internet thread.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:00   #29
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

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Capngeo provided useful legal information by quoting a letter from MD's DNR. He also cautioned to "[p]lease consult your lawyer," thereby implying that any more specific legal advice should come from an attorney, not just an internet thread.
You meant Redcobra and not Capngeo, right? LOL!
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:05   #30
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Re: Reply from DNR on Guns on Boats in MD

IBTL...
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