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Old 23-01-2012, 18:16   #136
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

Here is a site that describes some of the issues you may encounter as you clear in. Reading it is enough to make you leve the hardware home. As always, only the criminals can have guns.

Guns on Boats
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:20   #137
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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flag states responsibilities were codified by the Geneva Convention on the law of teh sea in 1950. The US designated the USCG for that role. ( as you point out)

Secondly the key phrase is " waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.". The US cannot legally act in another countries waters without permission, even if it involves a US flag vessel. Again it must receive permission. In international waters it can do that of course. Again a US flag ship is not a US territory in the normal meaning of the word.

As to permissions , of course friendly states and even old adversaries with a common cause ( drugs etc) often recognise other navies and allow them to act and in particular engage in hot pursuit. It doesnt change the rules though.

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So your point is? If they are going to allow a US flagged warship/cutter into their waters ...it will probably be to allow them to enforce a bunch of stuff or a specific instance...especially if a US flagged vessel that they probably don't want any part of anyway. Yes if it's in port...they want first crack at any local/national laws.

Believe me...I've been there...done it...so what is written is cool...but reality is that a lot can and is done that people would never imagine would be the way of things based on treaty/law.
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:26   #138
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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So your point is? If they are going to allow a US flagged warship/cutter into their waters ...it will probably be to allow them to enforce a bunch of stuff or a specific instance...especially if a US flagged vessel that they probably don't want any part of anyway. Yes if it's in port...they want first crack at any local/national laws.

Believe me...I've been there...done it...so what is written is cool...but reality is that a lot can and is done that people would never imagine would be the way of things based on treaty/law.
My point is I was merely countering the post that said teh US could operate in foreign waters, Yes they can but only legally by agreement and such agreements are usually forthcoming and tend to get fixed up by the revelant diplomatic staff. but they cannot act without such agreement ( of course illegal or covert operations aside).

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Old 23-01-2012, 18:32   #139
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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We look forward to the opportunity to dip our flag and salute any and all US military vessels we encounter in our travels. I confirmed with a Navy Captain at a recruiting booth at the Tall Ships in Green Bay that the military vessel is required to return the salute. Traditionally, this involves mustering the crew at the rail. If you do this, remember, they take this VERY seriously.

You must not have ever been in Navy if you are willing to do something that involves mustering the crew on the rail to salute some sailboat. Guess this would have been more an issue to me if I hadn't been on a submarine.

PS - In my mind a Navy warship has the "right" to do anything they want to a sailboat regardless of any rules or laws.
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:39   #140
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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We are documented. Have to be Michigan registerd with decal too. Once we leave Michigan we will have no home but the boat. I'm not planning to continue giving Michigan 550 bucks for a decal and they in fact cannot collect if we no longer have registration or residence there.
Somebody wrote this earlier in the thread. Remember Florida requires you to have a state registration on your boat even if it is documented someplace else. The law is not always enforced, but a fair number of folks from out of state have been pulled over and ticketed for this. There used to be a marine patrol Nazi in Venice that did it all the time, but I think he has retired. So, when in Florida you need both documentation and registration.
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:46   #141
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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Somebody wrote this earlier in the thread. Remember Florida requires you to have a state registration on your boat even if it is documented someplace else. The law is not always enforced, but a fair number of folks from out of state have been pulled over and ticketed for this. There used to be a marine patrol Nazi in Venice that did it all the time, but I think he has retired. So, when in Florida you need both documentation and registration.

I always wonder if anyone really understands the various laws. My boat is documented in NH, where I live. NH only requires boats to be registered if operated in-land. I keep my boat in MA and they don't require state registered if the boat is documented. So my boat isn't state registered anywhere.

Of course I could be wrong in my reading of the laws.
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:53   #142
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Originally Posted by Don Lucas

You must not have ever been in Navy if you are willing to do something that involves mustering the crew on the rail to salute some sailboat. Guess this would have been more an issue to me if I hadn't been on a submarine.

PS - In my mind a Navy warship has the "right" to do anything they want to a sailboat regardless of any rules or laws.
No they don't they operate within the law, unless hostilities are declared.
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:56   #143
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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No they don't they operate within the law, unless hostilities are declared.

I still will never argue with an Navy warship as a matter of survival.
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Old 23-01-2012, 18:59   #144
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

You are correct about NH and MA (where I keep my boat now), but Florida doesn't care at all about that. It has to be state registered somewhere according to Florida law. Easiest thing to do is to register it in Florida the first chance you get, or pick a state on the way down (like Delaware) where it is cheap. Here's a quote from here:

Quote:
Documented vessels without a state registration in full force and effect must also obtain a Florida registration and display the validation decal on the port side of the vessel when using Florida waters.
Also see: Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
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Old 23-01-2012, 19:06   #145
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

By the way, it should be pointed out for anyone reading this from outside the USA that there is absolutely no need to carry guns onboard anywhere in the USA despite what you might watch on TV and read on these forums, and I would venture to guess that almost nobody does. They might be handy in the far north of Alaska or Canada in case a polar bear or a grizzly gets too curious when you're ashore, but that's about it.
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Old 23-01-2012, 19:13   #146
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By the way, it should be pointed out for anyone reading this from outside the USA that there is absolutely no need to carry guns onboard anywhere in the USA despite what you might watch on TV and read on these forums, and I would venture to guess that almost nobody does. They might be handy in the far north of Alaska or Canada in case a polar bear or a grizzly gets too curious when you're ashore, but that's about it.
Whaaat aw shucks I was looking forward arriving armed to the teeth to do battle with all the armed crime everywhere with me being aided by gun tooting locals etc. you mean. .... It's not real.

I'm going back to watching CSI

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Old 23-01-2012, 20:40   #147
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

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There are laws on many countries law books that criminalise actions aboard at home. Sex trafficking genocide etc, they are specific laws not the generality. If you murder someone on Poland , the US does not try you, Poland must extradite you to stand trial in Poland, The US if it has an extradition treaty will abide by the rules of that treaty.

For example , if you buy and smoke weed in a cafe in Ansterdam, will you be prosecuted on arrival in the US, no.
I dont think or assume that the US gov. would try and convict one for smoking in amsterdamn but if you are in amsterdamn and you conspire to move 2 kilos of weed 20 miles away, say to rotterdamn not only would the local gov.(amsterdamn) get you (Pot is illegal in amsterdamn you know )but the US would get you also for conspiring to break the law even if Amsterdamn didnt find out and the US did.Saying specific and not generally is like splitting hairs..try setting up a drug ring in mexico or jamaica or the Bahamas while being an American and while in the process of trying to set it up you never set foot in the US and eventually give the idea up, they can still arrest you for conspiracy in the USA...If you are American all US laws apply to you regardless where you are. Is it worth it in every instance to prosecute you for small infractions ? No. Could they if they wanted to YES...As Americans we are subject to all US laws all the time and anywhere...And if you violate the law within 10 miles of any US military base or in any territory of the US(Washington DC,Guam,PT. Rico you can be tried by Military Rather than civil if the gov. see fit to do so...DVC
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Old 23-01-2012, 20:44   #148
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

I live in Washington DC. Although the Supreme Court recently found the DC de facto prohabition on gun ownership unconstitutional the DC government remains unphased. I had thought to buy an M-1 Carbine because it is small, easily stored and can be made even smaller with a folding stock. I went to a gun show in Virginia and they flatly refused to sell the gun to me because, so it seems, in DC no one has any Second Ammendment rights.

For what it's worth, in DC there is a long list of permitted hand guns and restrictions on rifles as well. The problem comes with the purchase. You have to buy the gun somewhere then take the receipt to an agent in DC. The agent acts as a local gun shop for paperwork only. Then the DC police issue you the permit (maybe) and you take the permit to pick up the gun. The problem is, guess what, there is no agent in DC. So you cannot pick up the gun because the seller will not give it to you without the DC paperwork. An M-1 carbine with a folding stock is not legal because it is a semi-auto rifle and ---the stock is folding.
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Old 23-01-2012, 22:43   #149
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

So - can we carry flame throwers? Doesn't seem to fit the listed jprohibitions for guns
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Old 23-01-2012, 22:56   #150
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Re: Reply from DNR re: Guns on Boats in MD

A flame thrower is a NFA class weapon called AOW (any other weapon) in US law.

Private citizens can legally own this weapon by submitting an application to the BATFE and passing a background check, plus a $200 dollar fee.

This allows ownership at home and transportation to and from a range or shooting event. Of course, this is all about collectables, history, exhibition, hobby activity, etc.

Might be a little bit of a stretch to suggest it could be carried on board a sailing vessel however.

I suspect you know this already.
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