Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

[Spleen]

Originally Posted by chubby

unfortunately, at least for the privacy for the posters of that website... xerq.io is not part of the "deep web".
..it is actually indexed by google..
if something was deleted just click on that 'triangle' next to the UrL for the original/cached page.

Could you explain about the triangle?

[gjordan]

I have tried to stay out of this fast moving thread, but the question of (doesnt a CG license mean a certain level of competentcy?) sp? My first ticket was a 25 ton Masters. (Yes you can get one that small) In the class I took in the Virgin Islands there was a kid that had run a Boston Whaler at a resort, down wind to bring the windsurfing guests back when they could not sail back up wind. He didnt know that there were 360 degrees on a compass. He didnt know squat, but he passed the test and suddenly was qualified to run up to a 100 ton un-inspected vessel. This kid was not stupid, but was ignorant of all things other than an outboard powered skiff. My wife and I were the only people in the class to have done long passages. KIND OF SCARY. As far as RH goes, I am glad they are safe, but I am disgusted at the lawsuit. My 2 cents worth. _____Grant.

[akmagnolia]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

First they freak out the soccer moms - who actually came here and told us they favor regulation to stop weird cruisers from taking their own kids off-shore.

I would fall in that category. I can't seem to quit following the story. First, I'd like to say that I've enjoyed reading about the lifestyle in general. I doubt I would live it myself, but I can tell it is valued by the people here.

Second, I would like to clarify my concerns. I am not against preventing people from taking their kids off-shore, or even preventing weird cruisers from taking their kids. I am in favor for making sure when anyone takes a small child or infant off-shore, a minimum standard is met for promoting the safety and well-being of the child. My guess is many successful cruisers with small children are meeting that standard.

The areas of regulation I had in mind were minimum square footage per passenger (in one study, the number of bedrooms and square footage of the home negatively correlated to rate of accident), berthing areas free of suffocation or strangulation risks, ways of restricting movement of toddlers from safe areas to unsafe areas, drowning prevention, scalding and burn protection, requiring a way to safely restrain a child in rough seas below deck, and minimum child to adult crew ratios based on the age of the children. Now I'm thinking some formal training in pediatric first aid would be helpful as well.

At the very least, consider requiring at least one adult to pass a test on sailing safely with small children, akin to the hunter's education requirement and motor vehicle licensing requirements already imposed on landlubbers.

It would be great someone with a true risk management background in the sailing community proactively developed this type of training and best practice recommendations at the grassroots level for people who want to cruise with kids but are freaking out about the prospect of becoming the next "Rebel Heart" media darlings.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Spleen

Could you explain about the triangle?

triangle is just google's icon for the cached version (at least on my firefox browser)
just click to view the cached version of a page.

example...
this thread is not present on xerq...
https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&hl=en&ct=clnk

....but obviously uncle google remembers it


(mods please delete if some privacy line is being crossed here)

[MVNoPlans]

Originally Posted by akmagnolia

I am in favor for making sure when anyone takes a small child or infant off-shore, a minimum standard is met for promoting the safety and well-being of the child. My guess is many successful cruisers with small children are meeting that standard.

At the very least, consider requiring at least one adult to pass a test on sailing safely with small children, akin to the hunter's education requirement and motor vehicle licensing requirements already imposed on landlubbers.

AKMagnolia, I believe they departed from Mexico. I doubt the legislators in Mexico City care much about our first world sailing concerns. There were more conveniences on that boat than many Mexican citizens enjoy.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by akmagnolia

I . Now I'm thinking some formal training in pediatric first aid would be helpful as well.

Formal training? By the time the parents have finished that the kids wouldnt be kids anymore...



If I had a kid they would have lots of room. It would sleep on deck.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Formal training? By the time the parents have finished that the kids wouldnt be kids anymore...



If I had a kid they would have lots of room. It would sleep on deck.

Now that's funny.

[akmagnolia]

Yes, I understand Mexico could care less. However, at least one person on board held a U.S. issued Coast Guard license. I don't know how sailing regulations globally are enforced, so this may be completely irrelevant. However, if it could be tied to vessels registered in the United States, I wouldn't be against it.

I'm all for the community policing itself, but training budgets are finite and the Department of Defense went through an exercise not that long ago called Sequestration where training budgets were some of the first to cut. Many of my colleagues in the Department of Defense civil service, including veterans, went through mandatory, unpaid sequestration furloughs. If the money for search and rescue exhausts the training budget, the money has to be reprogrammed from some other source. The government shutdown last year didn't impact search and rescue, but it did mean landlubbers were unable to recreate or adventure in national parks throughout the nation. With a few more high profile rescues on the back of this situation, it is reasonable to believe the support you have outside of your community will diminish.

For what it's worth, Rebel Heart probably couldn't pay back the costs if they had the money and tried to, since federal appropriations law prevents federal agencies from accepting and obligating funds from outside sources absent some statutory authority from Congress allowing it. I'm no expert, but it would probably violate the Antideficiency Act (Augmentation of Appropriations) and if so, the Department of Defense would have to turn down the offer.

[MVNoPlans]

AKMagnolia: They could have EMT training and a 30 metre yacht, but if they make poor choices, it still results in trouble. We all just need to fess up when we mess up, and do our best not to mess up. Legislating common sense remains elusive even in 2014. That is why we have Darwin jokes.

[akmagnolia]

Originally Posted by MVNoPlans

AKMagnolia: They could have EMT training and a 30 metre yacht, but if they make poor choices, it still results in trouble. We all just need to fess up when we mess up, and do our best not to mess up. Legislating common sense remains elusive even in 2014. That is why we have Darwin jokes.

I get it, and normally I'm the first to recommend the rule of natural consequences, but when kids don't make the choices but pay the price, it makes me testy. I could care less of grown-ups feel the pain for their choices, and I'm all for teenagers feeling it, but toddlers and infants? Not so much. This is why we have car seat laws, why FHA won't approve a loan on a house built before 1978 with chipped paint, and hospitals perform required screening tests before sending newborns home with mom and dad. I'm sure if legislators wanted to regulate, they could find a way to make it happen.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by h20man

Very good point. On another forum where he was known as faceman, many posts and whole threads have vanished. By his own hand.

He specifically stated he was in software for a financial services company. He also stated that he spent 30k on the boat and another 20k fitting it out. This was in response to someone asking how he can afford it.



Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I didn't see any of that.

[akmagnolia]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Formal training? By the time the parents have finished that the kids wouldnt be kids anymore...



If I had a kid they would have lots of room. It would sleep on deck.

Very funny, I agree. Nothing like fresh air and a line of sight to the horizon.

I'm not expecting pediatricians at the end of the training...but preventing dehydration and knowing what to do when a toddler refuses to take medicine would be helpful. I'm thinking more in the lines of a typical Red Cross certification course but geared to towards the techniques you would use on a child. Many of the parents I know are in the mindset that child first aid is getting in the car and heading to an emergency room or calling 911. Unless you've worked in a day care or for a school (or work as a first responder, or in the healthcare field), the training you would get in the workplace would would most likely be geared towards first aid on adults.

It's been fun. Thanks for letting me play!

[Spleen]

Originally Posted by savoir

I didn't see any of that.

It's all on the other forum where he is Faceman.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Spleen

It's all on the other forum where he is Faceman.

Name of this forum?

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by akmagnolia

...but preventing dehydration and knowing what to do when a toddler refuses to take medicine would be helpful. I'm thinking more in the lines of a typical Red Cross certification course but geared to towards the techniques you would use on a child.

I've read several times that RH was a "first responder". Anyone know what that means?

Again, according to RHx2 in the interview, the syringes the jumpers used to administer the medicine were ones they already had on board. So - nothing was missing from RH's arsenal prior to the jumpers boarding (RH's medicine and syringes)...except knowledge of the technique.

If a first responder doesn't know how to do this, how is a typical Red Cross cert course going to fix that?