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Old 10-07-2014, 11:34   #91
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post

Perhaps they would have had to evacuate anyway, but they'll never have the opportunity to find out, cos the emergency satphone the carried for emergencies didn't work in an emergency, and that was clearly the provider's error.

If what you say as fact is true, it would be an easy case.

You buy a sat phone AND THE MINUTES for an emergency. The way I see it, they used the phone for 2 people blogging for 2 weeks...that's a bunch of data. They don't give away data or minutes. Iridium is $795 for 500 minutes (or close to that). I'm guessing they went through their data big time, and I wouldn't expect the company to just give them free data. Therefore, no case.

You can sue anybody. It doesn't mean anything and it could be a long shot attempt to get a settlement from Iridium, but I don't expect that to happen.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:38   #92
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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Originally Posted by WindLove View Post
If what you say as fact is true, it would be an easy case.

You buy a sat phone AND THE MINUTES for an emergency. The way I see it, they used the phone for 2 people blogging for 2 weeks...that's a bunch of data. They don't give away data or minutes. Iridium is $795 for 500 minutes (or close to that). I'm guessing they went through their data big time, and I wouldn't expect the company to just give them free data. Therefore, no case.

You can sue anybody. It doesn't mean anything and it could be a long shot attempt to get a settlement from Iridium, but I don't expect that to happen.
It has nothing to do with minutes used. Their sim card was deactivated by the provider because they had mailed them a new one to replace their old one with but never informed them this would be happening.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:41   #93
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I am truly happy to see that Eric and Chartlotte will be taking legal action to punish the parties responsible for the sat phone failure.

I have spent the last 35 years working in the consumer electronics industry for several major manufacturers. I have observed the growing lack of quality support after the sale. In short, as technology advances, the consumer is left to fend for themselves. Don't ya just love getting support from someone who is semi literate in your language.

At the very least, the service provider had no concern for providing the services they had been paid for and interrupted sat service so they could make changes presumably for their financial advantage. After all, its not like their phone was shut off, so who cares!

Go get em !!!!
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:47   #94
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Oh dear god here we go again...

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Old 10-07-2014, 11:50   #95
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Might not have made my point clearly Smack, what I was saying it appears the issue RH had was not dropped calls as I understand then to be but as you wrote as being about the sim card.

Not sure who RH is taking to court.
Ah, I see. No worries.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:50   #96
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Here is the more interesting sentence on that page you linked to:

“Effective immediately, Iridium has discontinued their service Guarantee. It is our experience that dropped calls are not uncommon on all satellite networks, including Iridium. This page is maintained for historical purposes only”

The plot thickens. I wonder when that was added? But again, it will come down to the contract - not a webpage.
From the internet archive it appears it was added between Nov 26, 2011 and October 12, 2012.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:00   #97
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
It has nothing to do with minutes used. Their sim card was deactivated by the provider because they had mailed them a new one to replace their old one with but never informed them this would be happening.

Maybe I haven't paid close enough attention. They did their blog for 2 weeks and just when the baby got sick the SIM was cut off? I'll believe that when it is said in court, under oath.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:07   #98
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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God bless America
All libertarian and pioneering until there's a buck to be made. Has a more contradictory culture ever existed?

As for RH, I am neither surprised nor disappointed. Who would refuse to grasp at a straw like this? The faint hope that a bureaucratic screw-up could be parlayed into the restoration of the boat dream thanks to clever legal storytelling? They are in for a cavity search, however, and should consider what that will do to their reputations.

Unfortunately, legal recourse of this type, even in the litigation-mad States, further opens the door to a policing of offshore cruising. Full insurance, airbags, EPIRBs up the colon, etc. The more regulation, the more people who have no skill set and therefore no business being offshore will blindly stumble into danger, thumb on the big red button: consider two-time rescuees "Len and Lisa": Len & Lisa, ACR Survivors Use TWO Beacons for TWO Different Rescues | ACR Artex

I worry sometimes about the impact of EPIRBs and PLBs on the sailing community. Clearly, they provide some hope in situations which would also certainly mean the death or mystery loss of the crew, but on the other hand, they are like putting airbags and a safety belt on a terrible driver, who gets to live to buy another car after climbing uninjured from a wreck! Sometimes I think we had better go sailing as soon as possible before the entire lifestyle is nanny-stated into a carnival ride, thanks to the expense of saving all the bad ones from their own inepititude and lack of savvy.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:12   #99
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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The first thing I thought too.

Another issue:

Has it come to this point in America, where anytime some fool decides to head out into the woods on a hike and manages to get lost, he or she can then sue their cell phone company when the phone doesn't work for whatever the reason (didn't pay their bill, no coverage, phone is broken, dropped it in a puddle, messed up SIM card).... because their weekend adventure was spoiled by a costly rescue?
You clearly already know the answer. Baby Jessica fell down the well, so sue the hole in the ground.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:26   #100
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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I would not rush to judgment as many of you have.
I don't see that here so much, DH. Just an acknowledgement that those of us who remember when a warning that "coffee may be hot" was not required reading on a cup lid may think we live in a diminished world.

People carry satellite phones for a number of reasons. It can be a safety device of a type, but so can a piece of rope knotted into a tether. I think RH deserve a new phone and maybe a few years' of free gold-plated service, plus court costs, for the contractual screw-up. A new boat? I'm not convinced of the chain of causality.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:26   #101
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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I think there is a case for criticising the "arm chairing" side of it and there are plenty of knockers. However, if you want to keep pushing your face onto the TV and other media instead of just going about it quietly and without fanfare, then I personally feel that they should not be protected from this.

If you choose to live your life like a reality show, and seem intent on self publicity/promotion, then you have to accept that some folks are going to be completely disillusioned with the reasons why you would do this and they are entitled to say so.

Coops.
I'm coming around to this point of view. I do still believe the Kaufmans just got unlucky. I was with them up to and including the "This American Life" interview, which I think they handled admirably.

This, though, is starting to feel a bit over the top.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:29   #102
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

No matter the outcome it will should be a good show
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:29   #103
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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So if you are using your gps and the company shuts off there system with our you knowing and you are in the middle of a reef or inlet and sink your boat you would do nothing. No matter the disclaimer if you buy safety equipment you would expect it to work. If the company dose something to the equipment they are liable Same as if you bought a live raft and had to deploy it and it sank causing you to loss a loved one and found the company forgot to sew the pontoon would you not all do the same thing.

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Actually, I would heave to and get out my sextant. I have seen the GPS system wobble and know enough of Man's works to try to have a Plan B, C and D. Plan B is CN.

You would inflate the liferaft when you went for a service repack. An unglued seam would show at that point.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:30   #104
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

One issue I have not seen mentioned relates to the details concerning how notice of the SIM card change was (or maybe was not) communicated to customers and what the contract said about a contact address to communicate such details.

Every couple of months or so I get a bundle of mail sent to the address of my condo. While most of it is junk at times there are important notices in the mail. I am wondering if the contract with the service provider required such contact point, if RH had one, or possibly if this is where the glitch happened.
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Old 10-07-2014, 13:15   #105
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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I'm a lawyer, and although I didn't practice any litigation, I did, as a young law clerk, write the appellate brief for the defense in a landmark Federal case which held that gun manufacturers are not liable to shooting victims just because they made the gun the victims were shot with. I am a big proponent of tort reform and consider our tort system to be a menace to our civilization.

HOWEVER, I actually think this may be a good case, at least based on the few facts which we have. Sat phones are used for safety. If Eric was unable to use his satphone because of some wrongful behavior of the provider -- like cutting him off contrary to the terms of Eric's contract -- then the provider is liable for damages proximately caused by this wrongful behavior. I think, depending on all the facts (of which I repeat we know probably less than 1%), the loss of Eric's boat might really have been proximately caused by his inability to use the satphone. I would not rush to judgment as many of you have.

I agree. If I get into a life or death situation at sea and something malfunctions, I'll try like hell to go to plan B, C, D, whatever it takes to survive. But you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to go after the dumbass that canceled my sat phone service once I reach shore. They'll be lucky if I just hire an attorney.

Also, I haven't seen anyone else post this as of page 4, but according to the talking head with a rack, at the end of the first video she says the Kaufmans are requesting that the federal gov't be reimbursed for the cost of the rescue. There was no mention of money for the Kaufmans.

If that is the case and they are not going to profit from this at all, they're taking a big risk with no reward, and a few people might consider being a bit less harsh when jumping the gun.
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