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Old 10-07-2014, 10:19   #76
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by tookish1 View Post
. Limitation Of Liability

The satellite services provided by the satellite service provider may be temporarily interrupted, delayed or otherwise limited and is not available everywhere in the world. GlobalCom makes no representation that the satellite service provider the customer chooses to use can provide uninterrupted service. Furthermore, GlobalCom shall have no liabilities or credit due for interrupted service unless caused by gross negligence of GlobalCom. GlobalCom shall not be liable for acts or omissions of other carriers, equipment failures or modifications, acts of God, strikes, government actions, or causes beyond our reasonable control. GlobalCom makes no warranties with respect to the service of any kind whatsoever, expressed or implied, except as specifically provided in this agreement. The implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for any particular purpose are hereby disclaimed and excluded. GlobalCom shall not be liable to its distributor or customer or any third party for any special, incidental, or consequential damages.
I think that's the point....
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:23   #77
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by tookish1 View Post
. Limitation Of Liability

The satellite services provided by the satellite service provider may be temporarily interrupted, delayed or otherwise limited and is not available everywhere in the world. GlobalCom makes no representation that the satellite service provider the customer chooses to use can provide uninterrupted service. Furthermore, GlobalCom shall have no liabilities or credit due for interrupted service unless caused by gross negligence of GlobalCom. GlobalCom shall not be liable for acts or omissions of other carriers, equipment failures or modifications, acts of God, strikes, government actions, or causes beyond our reasonable control. GlobalCom makes no warranties with respect to the service of any kind whatsoever, expressed or implied, except as specifically provided in this agreement. The implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for any particular purpose are hereby disclaimed and excluded. GlobalCom shall not be liable to its distributor or customer or any third party for any special, incidental, or consequential damages.
If they can prove that changing sim cards with out proper notice is gross negligence I think they will have a chance. It is really going to depend on how good the lawyer is and how well he can define (or change peoples understood definition) of negligence.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:23   #78
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Quote:
Furthermore, GlobalCom shall have no liabilities or credit due for interrupted service unless caused by gross negligence of GlobalCom.GlobalCom shall not be liable for acts or omissions of other carriers, equipment failures or modifications, acts of God, strikes, government actions, or causes beyond our reasonable control.
If GlobalCom was their provider then it appears they likely have a large leg to stand on.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:33   #79
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Josh Slocum would be turning in his grave....God Bless America and this totally pathetic thread should never have even started.

Just get out there and sail for goodness' sake. If you're frightened or concerned then its very simple - don't go. If you do go, then God bless you.....but do stop whingeing if something doesn't quite work....

I'm amazed, and extremely saddened, that the adventurous spirit and attitudes of the early pioneers has been totally lost, apparently.....Where is your Country going to, I forlornly wonder...?
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:40   #80
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
From what I can see, this is an easy win:

In addition to the medication issue, which is cut-and-dried right there, the satphone also apparently caused the deck-rot the captain apparently knew about (according to his posts) prior to departure (though that didn't come up in the interview, of course), which then apparently caused the deck failure, which then caused the water intrusion, which then caused the failure of the batteries/electronics, which then caused the inability to make drinking water...and also obviously caused the lack of tankage for fuel (for power generation or propulsion)...etc...which left them without power or comms (except for the EPIRB and handheld VHF if I recall correctly - I'll have to look that up).

Yep. Had they only known the medicine technique - none of this other stuff would have been an issue for the remaining 3-8 weeks of that leg of their journey. They were just fine.

Damn phone.
What Smack said.....
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:56   #81
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by Scottuk View Post
It is interesting they denied the antecedent in their language. Why not just exclude it? I think it is misleading at best.

However what Smack has brought up doesn't not appear to be germane to the issue, if RH had a problem with dropped calls then they would still be likely able to communicate at some later point. Due to the sim card change they were not so could be considered negligent and a contributory factor.
You may be right Scott. I guess the question will come down to who was providing the service and what contractual T&C of that service were.

I don't know much about satphones, but I assume it's a combo of the hardware and the service, the latter of which can be supplied by numerous companies via sim cards for the device.

For example, following the Globalcom link above indicates they sell both hardware and service. But they are not Iridium. If the service provider decides on a SIM card change, is that the responsibility of Iridium? Not according to the language above.

So it might very well be germane in this case. Do we know if RH is going after Iridium directly?

Also - do you guys know for sure that GlobalCom was actually the provider? If not, we should be careful not to bring their name into this discussion. Just sayin'.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:57   #82
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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I'm no wannabe cruiser and have done the miles. If Rebel Heart needed an operational phone link to land to fulfill his cruising dreams he should not have been out there, simple!!! The fact that it has now entered into litigation makes me sad for the future of the cruising lifestyle. Shame.
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If you're going to rely on a telephone working anywhere in the world to get yourself out of difficulty then you have no right to call yourself a bluewater cruiser or whine to the courts when it goes pear shaped. If you want the luxuries of life then stay at home. If you want to test yourself, explore what life has to offer and not be a burden on your fellow man then yes, go cruising.
A lot of speculations here about RH intent to suit the integrity of your soapbox. You sound more like Ted Nugent and less like a person of the sailing community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Any decent expert witness will blow this out of the water...the reliability of handheld sat phones is well documented.....EPIRBs are for emergencies...Sat Phones are for communications...maybe even unreliable comms....some equipment is obviously better than others.

We all know EVERYTHING on a boat works as advertised 100% of the time at sea...if it fails...it's obvious whose problem it is....

What will kill this case faster than anything is all the unhappy customers all over the planet with service...and because the basic units to connect do so...it's unlikely to be a key point unless the manufacturer has documented intentional problems within the "unit".

I'm sure a crack lawyer could disagree with everyone of my points...so we will just have t wait and see....
Even a bad lawyer would...
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:01   #83
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I don't know of one small boat operator that would classify a handheld sat phone as safety equipment any more than the international distress flag rolled up in their flare kits.

Sure it's a tool in the bag of tricks...and you hope like hell it works when you have an emergency ...

Especially for something like a medical emergency that wouldn't require rescue if good comms could prevent it...but hoping is a lousy word/concept to use near the front of any survival plan.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:03   #84
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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A lot of speculations here about RH intent to suit the integrity of your soapbox. You sound more like Ted Nugent and less like a person of the sailing community.



Even a bad lawyer would...
But a good sailor wouldn't...at least one with plenty of emergency/rescue experience.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:07   #85
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

When I started sailing years ago I read a book by Sir Alex Rose who sailed around the world. He chose not to carry a SSB radio, his reasoning was that if he failed to make contact when scheduled his family would worry. Now we cannot go to sea without a satellite phone and email. Yes I agree this equipment adds a level of safety but to place all your trust in this equipment is in my mind foolhardy and one needs to be prepared to get by without out it. I agree I would be upset with the satellite company but I would not be blaming everything on them either.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:15   #86
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Quote:
So it might very well be germane in this case. Do we know if RH is going after Iridium directly?
Might not have made my point clearly Smack, what I was saying it appears the issue RH had was not dropped calls as I understand then to be but as you wrote as being about the sim card.

Not sure who RH is taking to court.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:18   #87
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Let's also not forget that Atoll and others on this forum were planning a Rescue of Rebel Heart. If Eric had a working sat phone it very well may have been possible to save Rebel Heart from the deep...


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Old 10-07-2014, 11:20   #88
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
You sound more like Ted Nugent and less like a....
Hey hey hey don't be hating on Uncle Ted

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
Way I started sailing years ago I read a book by Sir Alex Rose who sailed around the world. He chose not to carry a SSB radio, his reasoning was that if he failed to makes contact when scheduled his family would worry. Now we cannot go to sea without a satellite phone and email. Yes i agree this equipment adds a level of safety but to place all your trust in this equipment is in my mind foolhardy and one needs to be prepared to get by without out it. I agree i would be upset with the satellite company but i would be blaming everything on them either.
Point taken but that's why he had radios and an epirb and who knows what else. It wasn't his only device for safety but the way I read it I think he is making the point that if the provider had lived up to their end of the bargain it would have lessened the risk of harm to his daughter. He had other safety systems in place its just that the provider failed to hold up to their end of a service he was paying for.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:21   #89
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

What gets me is that this phone is a product marketed to cruisers for communication capability out of the range of land. I would assume (though i could be wrong) that the phone has gps on it or that the provider would be able to determine where each phone is located globally. I think its gross negligence for them to shut off service across the board without exercising due diligence to determine if their client was in fact mid transit. This is only reasonable given what the product is. I know they could have seen call activity was recently made on this particular phone. I also cant imagine there are so many of these units out there that a phone call could not be made to each customer to ascertain they were not being left without service (mid transit). Was the change of provider a cost saving profit maximizing decision?

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Old 10-07-2014, 11:22   #90
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

as so many have said if they the company or the provider intentional turned off the system vs it going down due to unforeseen circumstance. that is the deciding factor. a while back the life alert system was turned off for maintenance with out proper notification and was sued and lost due to loss of life. safety equipment bought is expected to work. this has nothing to do with you agreeing or disagreeing with them, for going, taking children what ever.
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