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Old 10-07-2014, 06:29   #46
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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My autopilot broke, I had to hand steer. Looking for a lawyer to sue Raymarine for my aching shoulders and emotional distress.
Now if a tech at Raymarine had reached into you boat and pulled the plug because he thought you were undeserving of their product, you may have a case.

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Old 10-07-2014, 06:30   #47
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I bet we (and several other friends) have/had the same service provider. Ours was first turned off last year as I was crossing the S. Indian Ocean. Getting weather is crucial and my Winlink and Sailmail were almost non-existent. My wife back in Ca. was relaying weather from the internet. (Very frustrating!). She had to call and scream at them and it got turned back on. About a week out of Cape Town, crossing the S. Atlantic, it went off for good. Weather reports were very seldom. Good thing its easterly trades, 12-20kts all the way! When I went to do the 2,500 mile trip to Barbados, I thought I had my radio email more reliable, but no, no gribs for the first week out. So once again I went with no weather for several days til I got closer to the Carbib and lots of ham, SSB stations.

I know I need to replace my foil ground on my radio, but that's why we have the sat phone, just in case we need backup!

My new SIM card (wife finally brought!) is sitting nearby, maybe I should put it in the phone and see if it works!

Greg, sitting in Grenadines with dead outboard!
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:45   #48
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Just to clarify - the phone just stopped working and when my wife called to complain they said "oh - we changed providers and we need to send u a new SIM card ". My wife THEN made a huge stink because they hadn't bothered to notify us or send a new sim before changing providers - and didn't think sending a new card when we discovered the old one didn't work would be a problem!! Right - just airdrop a new one to the boat in the middle of the ocean! We wouldn't have even known what happened if she hadn't been home and able to fu stateside or had it reconnected if she hadn't made such a fuss!
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:50   #49
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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I bet we (and several other friends) have/had the same service provider ...
Whenever Communications, LLC - dba SatellitePhoneStore.com?
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:54   #50
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Allroads was our phone provider with a third party service provider. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:56   #51
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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Pete's comment raises the issue of depending on the reliability of any and all equipment we have which can be called the complex system of a yacht (off shore). We assume certain serviceability and we are aware that entropy being what it is and how the sea seems to make matters worse we face a constant battle of maintenance.

New comm systems and high tech seem to add a measure of safety to what we do... but the complexity and dependance of the designers and service providers renders us in a position to not be able (in most cases) to deal with breakdowns and failures. Unfortunately more and more things become like black boxes which we can deal with. People now heavily rely on GPS and plotters when years ago it was basic DR and paper charts. When these complex systems fail for any reason we are sh*t out of luck and our decision to do rely on them is a risk we assume... along with the benefits they normally provide.

Cancelling a SIM contract or whatever without notice is not a good thing... but relying on a sat phone is not a good thing either.
I spent many night watches thinking and marveling about the investment and technology that ultimately delivered via my Iridium satphone, weather GRIBs on a computer screen in the middle of the Atlantic.

It is truly a representer of the cumulative engineering, sophistication, and accomplishment of the human race.

What follows is a partial list of some of technologies and knowledge that had to be developed/invented to get me a daily 6 day weather forecast with little effort;

1. integrated circuits
2. rocket science
3. understanding orbital mechanics
4. satellite and communication technology
5. software engineering/programning
6. science of weather forecasting
7. high performance super-computing
8. flat screen technology
9. computer hardware technology
10. internet (to instantly gather millions of point meteorology measurements and deliver the data to the supercomputers to update the forecast.)

I thought about private and government investment and their roles to make it happen. Could free enterprise have done it alone?

I wondered where all the technology was coming from. Are the US and Europeans islands of innovation in a teaming sea of humanity? We don't hear much about others.

Anyway, this was one of those recurring thoughts at 3:00 AM watches alone on starry and cloudy nights. Sorry about the drift.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:02   #52
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I didn't agree with them taking a 3yr old on a long off shore voyage but tried to keep my mouth shut as others might think we live a dangerous lifestyle. At first they were taking the risk and accepting it. I could at least respect that they took responsiblity for thier mistakes. Now they want someone else to pay for thier mistakes and I've lost respect for them.

This has nothing to do with a viable court case. This is purely trying to intimidate the phone company into handing out cash in the hopes of making it all go away because the bad publicity would cost them more than the blackmail payment.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:13   #53
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

That's good. I hope he gets a brand new boat and all new gear just to piss of those of you who who revel in others failures. Who knew we had so many mail order grad lawyers... the internet captains we knew about..

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Old 10-07-2014, 07:35   #54
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I'm a lawyer, and although I didn't practice any litigation, I did, as a young law clerk, write the appellate brief for the defense in a landmark Federal case which held that gun manufacturers are not liable to shooting victims just because they made the gun the victims were shot with. I am a big proponent of tort reform and consider our tort system to be a menace to our civilization.

HOWEVER, I actually think this may be a good case, at least based on the few facts which we have. Sat phones are used for safety. If Eric was unable to use his satphone because of some wrongful behavior of the provider -- like cutting him off contrary to the terms of Eric's contract -- then the provider is liable for damages proximately caused by this wrongful behavior. I think, depending on all the facts (of which I repeat we know probably less than 1%), the loss of Eric's boat might really have been proximately caused by his inability to use the satphone. I would not rush to judgment as many of you have.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:36   #55
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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That's good. I hope he gets a brand new boat and all new gear just to piss of those of you who who revel in others failures. Who knew we had so many mail order grad lawyers... the internet captains we knew about..

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Who's reveling in others failures?

I see lots of folks lamenting the fact that we are forced to live rubber padded world with disclaimers for wiping your bottom and a lot of stupidity for fear that the lawyers will come calling and RH (who before the accident appeared to be the type to lament that also) has turned out to be part of the problem now that they see dollar signs.

Now if it's truely about making sure others don't suffer the same fate, I'm sure they will publicly instruct thier lawyers to amend the case so that any winnings in the court case will be donated to charity and they will not accept any settlements, especially if that involves a non-disclosure agreement.

I'll change my tune when I hear that. Until then I will keep my reveling under control but I make no such declaration regarding my lamenting.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:52   #56
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

It seems they will be appearing on Good Morning America this morning I believe according to the Rebel Heart Facebook page. I expect their lawyer will be there too.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:52   #57
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I saw this coming and wish them luck in their lawsuit.

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Old 10-07-2014, 08:07   #58
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

"Has it come to this point in America, where anytime some fool decides to head out into the woods on a hike and manages to get lost, he or she can then sue their cell phone company when the phone doesn't work for whatever the reason"

And actually, there's the precedent, the US federal regulation, and the reason that Iridium might be fools to let this go to a jury.

In the US it has been federal law for some years now, that every cell phone makes 911 emergency service calling enabled--regardless of the service plan, regardless of roaming, regardless of anything except a physically dead phone. And as I understand it, those laws affect the phone maker, not just the carrier. The phone must connect 911 calls, carrier agnostic.

The parallel is fairly clear. As a "public safety" measure it would behoove satphone providers to make sure emergency calls can be made by anyone at any time with any phone. That might mean "SAR only" to a SAR dispatch center, or something else. But the precedent is fairly clear.

Unless there's something in Eric's contracts that clearly negates that--and even that could be thrown out as an adhesion contract--then Iridium can buy them a new boat for way less than the cost of defending this glitch.

And if they're smart, they'll change their connect policies and just raise everyone's rates by a penny per minute to cover whatever the costs are. Before the Fed comes in and makes the change for them. (Or, wait for the legislation and then tack on an "Emergency Communications Compliance Fee" the way phone companies do.)
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:09   #59
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

Do you really believe that it was the SAT phone companies fault? Did you realize that they were blogging along just fine for the first 13 days of their journey. Is it possible that they were using their SAT air time for that?
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:13   #60
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

I am assuming that you checked on your SAT phone service before you headed out to sea. We always check our phone out before setting out on a journey. That way you make sure that all is well. To not check it is irresponsible. That is why I am having an issue with Rebel Heart suing the company. They obviously either didn't check it out or they didn't pay their bill, or possibly used up their air time with all of the blogging they were doing.
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