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Old 12-07-2014, 00:58   #391
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

From what I've been able to dig up - I think we might actually be at rock bottom (with RH) now.



I'm done.
This ever evolving train wreck still has room to run. Critical mass is a ways off yet IMO.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:10   #392
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by akmagnolia View Post
Second, I would like to clarify my concerns. I am not against preventing people from taking their kids off-shore, or even preventing weird cruisers from taking their kids. I am in favor for making sure when anyone takes a small child or infant off-shore, a minimum standard is met for promoting the safety and well-being of the child. My guess is many successful cruisers with small children are meeting that standard.
First of all thanks for taking the time to hang around and educate yourself. I am not sure your sentence above is what you mean - "I am not against preventing..."

So you are for preventing?

Anyway - I told myself 12 hours ago I'd stop replying for a bit here but you quoted me so I can't help myself....

There's a pretty good stereotype of the people who live in Alaska. My brother went to college in Fairbanks so I have heard his stories. I might be tempted to call it child abuse to make a kid live there but... Point being you'd probably object to an uninformed stereotype.

Alaska does need people who care about kids - I encourage you to start local and get involved in Alaska - Apparently they are hiring.

Office of Children's Services

Come work for the Alaska Office of Children's Services! on Vimeo

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Originally Posted by akmagnolia View Post
The areas of regulation I had in mind were minimum square footage per passenger (in one study, the number of bedrooms and square footage of the home negatively correlated to rate of accident), berthing areas free of suffocation or strangulation risks, ways of restricting movement of toddlers from safe areas to unsafe areas, drowning prevention, scalding and burn protection, requiring a way to safely restrain a child in rough seas below deck, and minimum child to adult crew ratios based on the age of the children. Now I'm thinking some formal training in pediatric first aid would be helpful as well.
So how to unwind this from the cliff and not sound two-faced...

Cruisers who get out there are smart people. They are resourceful doers and achievers. They don't abuse their kids. Their kids get experiences that land dwellers will never understand. The kids end up with independence, curiosity, self awareness, well socialized and brilliant. They are largely disconnected from the video/McDonald's culture and spend way more time outside in Nature's classroom doing rather than watching it on video. Many kids chose to return to land, some follow in their parents footsteps.

Forget everything about the sat phone and also understand the jury is still out. Cruising parents make mistakes like every other parent. Eric an Charlotte have been scrutinized by their community like no other parents on land would be. We are almost like the Amish.

But do go read up on the last 2 years of life on RH. Eric and Charlotte love their kids, they socialized their kids not only with other cruising kids but with village Mexican kids and spent every moment they could with their kids.

Did they underestimate living in close quarters 24 X 7 with no ability to step on the beach - Probably. Did things go wrong - assuredly.

But Eric knew the risks and he had all the communication gear any of us would have had - VHF, HF, Sat Phone and EPIRB.

He had liferaft, watermakers, medicine and food. Did he have the "best house in the neighborhood?" - No - But the size and cost of your house have nothing to do with one's quality as a parent or the child's safety.

Zero, nada, none of the proposed "regulatory areas" you propose above would have changed anything in this journey.

But here is the absolute excellent news - When they had to, Eric and Charlotte pressed the button and got off the boat. They (rightfully) put their child's safety above all else - their home, their dreams, 8 years of labor on the boat while working 2 jobs (or more) was gone - Child abuse would have been going on.

Eric and Charlotte had a lot of things line up against them - in a row! And the "system" worked.

Do parents who rebuild in the flood plains of the mid-west, the tornado belt of the south, the fire belt of the southwest, the urban war zone of (pick any major city) or heaven forbid the frozen north (where they might die of exposure if the school bus breaks down or be eaten by bears!) not deserve the same "scrutiny?"


So please hang around some more - read a couple of books by long term cruisers who have raised kids on boats. But if you want to improve child safety, get started in Alaska and when you are done there you can help out the <10 cruising kids who may get in harms way due to the remarkably infrequent poor decision making of their parent. And of course poor decision making by parents is not influenced by whether one lives in an RV, a condo, an apartment, a house, a duplex or a boat and it is certainly not related to how many square feet a child has to sleep in.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:14   #393
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

The sat phone servicer's Nevada address seems to be just that of a company that incorporates corporations. Doesn't seem very important.

First responders have more training than first aid, but less than EMTs; roughly about 40 hours' worth. Police, for example, are commonly trained to this level. Wiki: "A certified first responder can be seen either as an advanced first aid provider, or as a limited provider of emergency medical care when more advanced providers are not yet on scene or available."

In addition to first aid, first responders generally would have some more diagnostic training, training in packaging patients for transport, and some in administering oxygen.

There is also specialized training available for wilderness first responders, which may be useful for people who may be providing treatment in areas distant from advanced medical care.

So much speculation, so few facts. Some good info, but some pretty weird stuff in this thread as well.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:16   #394
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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so lying by omission is acceptable these days.

As is contempt based on media information and personal negativity.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:24   #395
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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I would fall in that category. I can't seem to quit following the story. First, I'd like to say that I've enjoyed reading about the lifestyle in general. I doubt I would live it myself, but I can tell it is valued by the people here.

Second, I would like to clarify my concerns. I am not against preventing people from taking their kids off-shore, or even preventing weird cruisers from taking their kids. I am in favor for making sure when anyone takes a small child or infant off-shore, a minimum standard is met for promoting the safety and well-being of the child. My guess is many successful cruisers with small children are meeting that standard.

The areas of regulation I had in mind were minimum square footage per passenger (in one study, the number of bedrooms and square footage of the home negatively correlated to rate of accident), berthing areas free of suffocation or strangulation risks, ways of restricting movement of toddlers from safe areas to unsafe areas, drowning prevention, scalding and burn protection, requiring a way to safely restrain a child in rough seas below deck, and minimum child to adult crew ratios based on the age of the children. Now I'm thinking some formal training in pediatric first aid would be helpful as well.

At the very least, consider requiring at least one adult to pass a test on sailing safely with small children, akin to the hunter's education requirement and motor vehicle licensing requirements already imposed on landlubbers.

It would be great someone with a true risk management background in the sailing community proactively developed this type of training and best practice recommendations at the grassroots level for people who want to cruise with kids but are freaking out about the prospect of becoming the next "Rebel Heart" media darlings.
To make your proposed legislation simpler to write and to understand, just make it mandatory to chain your kids to the couch until they're 21 yrs old.


In case it's not obvious, I absolutely abhor people who want to legislate stupidity and every aspect of everyone else's life. Let nature take it's course. Natural selection works, and the great benefit of it, is it prunes from the bottom of the bunch.

You can never legislate stupidity or morality. It is just not possible.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:30   #396
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Sure you can legislate stupidity. Happens every day in Washington DC.
Oh, you mean legislate it out of existence? Not that easy.

At least duct tape to the mouth has some temporary efficacy.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:29   #397
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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So,after a billion pages,what is the consensus then?
the RH blog,the keel page,and other feeds etc are generating lots more revenue from advertising.

charlotte is getting great exposure for her online shop.

and they are both back in the spot light as celebraties........exactly where they want to be
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:06   #398
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Jeez 27 pages very quickly....I'm not reading them, I'm going sailing...
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:19   #399
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pirate Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
the RH blog,the keel page,and other feeds etc are generating lots more revenue from advertising.

charlotte is getting great exposure for her online shop.

and they are both back in the spot light as celebraties........exactly where they want to be
Ahhhh... your just pissed you didn't think of it first...

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Old 12-07-2014, 05:33   #400
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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No. But feel free to search his own posts. Or clipped quotes, re-posted here or on other forums. If he hasn't already deleted them. Any one that was following them knows he was working remotely from the boat.
After a pile of netsurfing I found some stuff . . . . . . eventually.

I do not follow his blog and have only read about 1/4 of it. He sure was coy about the whole finance job thing. From his posts on CF I had assumed he was some kind of commercial vessel skipper who had retired after leaving SD. Remember that avatar of him in the officer's shirt ? I had not read a single reference to the finance job but hadn't searched for it either.

As an example, he completes a very long post about money that includes this lone comment
" But the lion's share of our money comes from me working my corporate job as we move around. The specifics of that I'm not at liberty to share . . . . "

Chances are that quite a few here on CF were unaware of this job as well.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:35   #401
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Ahhhh... your just pissed you didn't think of it first...

nah! i have a better plan.......i'm sueing west system epoxy because my cheap child labor(son) can no longer work on the cat as the grinding dust gives him a rash

also the council are paying out compensation for flood victims.........i get flooded twice a day,regular as clockwork,so far it has not done much damage apart from a nasty brown line on the antifouling
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:39   #402
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pirate Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
As an example, he completes a very long post about money that includes this lone comment
" But the lion's share of our money comes from me working my corporate job as we move around. The specifics of that I'm not at liberty to share . . . . "
"And if I told you I'd have to kill you.."
Chances are that quite a few here on CF were unaware of this job as well.
CIA Undercover...???

A saying I've known all my life... "Bullshit Baffles Brains.."
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Old 12-07-2014, 06:01   #403
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Savior, thanks for catching that, I could swear I saw it in several threads... Yet I did blow it by going with my memory. On the forums I am familiar with Eric uses the name Faceman.

On one thread that still exists he said he bought for 60K (he thinks), put in maybe 30K and another 10K-20K budgeted for next year.
Attachment 84876

On another thread he said his boat is worth ~60K.
Attachment 84878

I thought he had other numbers initially and google has results... but they are also being flushed.

Google Search:
I include a screen snap as stuff is changing:
Attachment 84877

I believe it was the first thread... where he responded to a question. The whole thread appears to be gone, as well as ANY google cache entry.


His discussion of his work came from this thread: I actually screen snapped that, but...Found the reference....

Attachment 84879
Thank you for the reference to Xerq. Until yesterday I had never even heard of it.

To anyone who shares my ignorance Xerq is a forum where bored little high school and college boys hang out to shoot the breeze. They can have it. Not my thing.

When you only read CF and the RH blog, references to this job are pretty well hidden but OK they are there to find if you spend enough time looking.
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Old 12-07-2014, 06:30   #404
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

One quick note, did they not leave on the puddle jump with other boats?

This part of the story also has bugged me. I would imagine dozens of boats left Mexico within a few weeks of each other.

When we crossed from the Galapagos to the Marqueas we were within VHF contact of some boats midway thru the crossing. Two KP 44s actually buddy boated the whole passage and stayed within visual sight. Did the other "puddle" jumpers not like and want to help this family?
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Old 12-07-2014, 06:41   #405
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
the RH blog,the keel page,and other feeds etc are generating lots more revenue from advertising.

charlotte is getting great exposure for her online shop.

and they are both back in the spot light as celebraties........exactly where they want to be
There is a thread about cruising on $US500 a month and bottom line seems to be it is not an easy task at best and requires scrimping on a lot of things. RH's blog was estimated to produce $US400 a month recently. Not sure about the online shop but it may not produce enough income to make up the difference.

Agree about the spot light issue.

But one thing you missed is that Whenever Comm is most likely out of business what ever happens. I know nothing about the company and have no connection to it and really don't care what happens.

But it does bother me that the announcement that a law suit may be filed is enough to drive a company out of business.

I am still not convinced a lawsuit will ever be filed. But I am convinced RH is doing everything he can to increase his personal cash flow.
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