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Old 11-07-2014, 17:46   #331
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Waivers of liability in services agreements are rarely enforceable in U.S. courts. Besides that, what happened here might very well be gross negligence.

SNIP
I am still having a hard time seeing how even gross negligence on the part of Whenever Comm subjects them to much liability.

Based on posts at CF my understanding was that an uncomfortable seaway was making salmonella in the baby worse. Sanitary conditions on the boat were questionable at best, with Charlotte washing dishes and dirty diapers in the same sink food was prepared in. For what ever reason the boat was knocked down damaging the hull/deck where chain plates were and allowing water to enter the hull and damage the electrical system, electronics, batteries, and in a way I don't completely understand take out the solar panel controller. Any repair of the electronics seemed unlikely without a landfall. There were questions about sufficient water, lack of ability go get more without a landfall, and fuel seemed insufficient.

The boat was not fast at best and with potential for more damage, even with reefing, a fast passage was not possible. The weather was not predicted to cooperate.

So RH is on a crippled boat short on water and fuel with a sick baby and by his own account other crew members suffering from salmonella and relief due to them taking antibiotics. Maybe speculation but it seems the baby was not compliant in taking the antibiotics while the rest of those on the boat were.

I am still looking for more details on this but my best guess is the responders who were able to treat the baby administered the antibiotic ROA using a syringe. Not sure about this and it could have been administered using a hypodermic syringe. What ever the case I doubt RH had these instruments/medication on board and this does require some level of training. Not to mention their use would be complicated by an uncomfortable seaway. The thought of administrating antibiotics to a baby on a small boat crossing an ocean for a few weeks using either method is not a pleasant one, even for someone trained to do it.

There is also some question about why the sat phone service was stopped. First we hear about a SIM change and then the service provider says something about billing. It seems the phone was working for at least some part of the trip. The timing and reason for the of the shut off of service still seems up in the air. But it does seem like the baby was in distress for some period of time while the cell phone worked.

So RH left knowing he and his family were taking antibiotics for salmonella, was that gross negligence? RH discovered rot in the deck and the repairs prior to the boat leaving on a blue water passage was poorly done, was this gross negligence? The boat suffered damage to the extent that leaking water damaged the electronics including communications and solar recharging controler and put the boat at risk for additional damage to the standing rigging, was this gross negligence?

Most events like this are not the result of one single cause. Rushing to make a weather window knowing those on the boat are being treated for salmonella on a small boat with existing rot in an area where there are chainplates to start a long blue water passage sounds like a recipe for disaster. Getting knocked down damaged the boat and started the leak and damage to the electronics. The cut off of sat phone service did not contribute to any of these problems. At best it looks like specialized instruments/medication would have been needed to treat the baby, and even if the cell phone worked it is not clear how they could have been delivered to the boat, even if the sat phone worked.

Maybe Whenever Comm did something wrong, but every day service is cut off for valid reasons and it is not gross negligence. Would it be a good idea for resellers to call up users and say we are getting ready to cut off your service prior to doing it, certainly. But I am not sure it is gross negligence to not do it. A lot of what RH did looks like gross negligence to me.
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Old 11-07-2014, 17:50   #332
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I'm quite sure you presently believe what you wrote that Lyra was not sick, or you would not have written it, but I would respectfully ask you to re-consider that.
I agree that Atoll is off the mark - the child was sick. She was also sick 9 days before departure. And she was sick 1-month after arrival back in San Diego. (Charlotte blogged about this - since deleted)

She was sick.

What I never have figured out is whether she had post treatment blood work in Mexico prior to being "cleared."

BTW - 3 of them were sick.

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It also seems a bit pointless to bother to rebut people's evil accusations who really have made no effort to follow the situation from the beginning. They probably just like spouting off, do not come from the wanting to help ground of being of the experienced cruiser.
Anne - I completely respect you and Jim and it is natural to want to defend someone when it appears they are being dog-piled on.

The beginning? Was around 2006 when Eric bought the boat and moved aboard. So technically I missed the beginning as I got here in 07.

But I admired this guy's energy, passion, focus, hard work and was so glad that he made it and launched.

I've probably spent way too much time this week - 3 hours or so on their blog, several hours rereading old threads here and last night a couple of hours on some other forum site. Watched all the interviews too.

So I've pretty much followed this from the beginning. I will never know what happened on that boat - and have stated repeatedly that I would not second guess any of his decisions on the boat - and to my knowledge I haven't. But I do feel informed enough to have an opinion about what he is doing now.

And I feel really bad for him - He visits here and is reading this stuff and must feel like crap.

But I do feel a little betrayed that he is not the person of integrity that I knew. He made many posts castigating other sailors, as have all of us, so that's not the problem.

Kretschmer (and all good sailing writers) talk about humility before the sea. I don't think Eric has learned any humility for what he attempted to do.

Instead he is blame shifting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Had Eric been able to use that sat phone and Lyra showed the same improvement, they might be in the South Pacific right now with the other kid boats and the dialogue on the forum would be different.

Don't you think that would be possible?
In a word no. What ifs are not really useful.

What we do know is that the kid was sick, took 3-days of anti-biotics that by their admission she didn't completely take, spit up, whatever. (Their postings)

We know the boat was compromised and losing power. (Their postings)

We know the satphone didn't work

We know he couldn't communicate via HF

We know he pressed the EPIRB

We know he scuttled his boat

We know he is suing the satphone service provider.

We know he is deleting postings from all over the internet boards he's frequented. Why do that?
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Old 11-07-2014, 17:51   #333
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Rent, Car, food, JOBS...the increased cost of living

.
He's never been without a job. It was the entire purpose of him owning a SAT phone. He's works in IT for a financial business. Not sure what they pay on the west coast, but jobs like that on the east coast command $100k +.
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Old 11-07-2014, 17:54   #334
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Hmmmmmm........can a person sue if their account has been hacked? I need my first boat. Just saying.
As RH has shown almost anyone can sue for almost anything even in the face of serious questions about the facts surrounding the suit. A lot of suits are dismissed early on in pretrial hearings. There are also lots of nuisance suits where the plaintiff settles for a small amount and the defendant views it as a win because fighting the suit in court would cost a lot more.

If you really want to sue someone look for a lawyer like RH has that specializes in personal injury.
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Old 11-07-2014, 17:59   #335
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by Gadagirl View Post
He's never been without a job. It was the entire purpose of him owning a SAT phone. He's works in IT for a financial business. Not sure what they pay on the west coast, but jobs like that on the east coast command $100k +.
okay i take back the non sick,sick child thing........but i think you hit the nail on the head......re their motivation for calling a rescue,they stood to lose 6-8k in revenue for the month to 6 weeks they would have been without a new sim card and internet or comms had they carried on.
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:08   #336
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
SNIP

Kretschmer (and all good sailing writers) talk about humility before the sea. I don't think Eric has learned any humility for what he attempted to do.

SNIP
Perhaps the most important thing my Dad impressed on me early on was "you never get better than the ocean".

The only real interaction I had with RH was concerning composting heads. He got one and for what ever reason was not able to resolve the problems he had with it, something about a bug infestation. I posted a couple of suggestions including one about taking the head out of the boat (something you have to do to empty it and is done by unscrewing a couple of wing nuts and lifting it up off the floor after disconnecting the vent held on by a wire clip) putting it on land washing it with a hose and letting it air out in the sun for a couple of days.

After reading details about the sanitary conditions on the boat during the ill fated passage I have a better understanding about what may have caused not just his problems with a composting head, but with the level of health on his boat. Washing diapers in the same sink you prepare food and was dishes can't be a good idea, at least for me. While not the only cause of health problems RH had it certainly did not help.
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:08   #337
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

Atol... The main reason I don't comment-

These monster threads are part of the problem as they elevate a private issue into something that should be left to the participants to clarify and hopefuly have closure.

By "Kardashionating" Eric's choices and character into a Forum pc.reality show..... You/WE actively empower a lot of exaggerated opinions on all sides to be given voice.

Whether Eric is benefitting or suffering from all this public attention is our fault either way and just like a child acting out .....sometimes the best solution is to "just ignore".
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:19   #338
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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SNIP .....sometimes the best solution is to "just ignore".
Yea, but what fun is that.
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:26   #339
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Atol... The main reason I don't comment-

These monster threads are part of the problem as they elevate a private issue into something that should be left to the participants to clarify and hopefuly have closure.

By "Kardashionating" Eric's choices and character into a Forum pc.reality show..... You/WE actively empower a lot of exaggerated opinions on all sides to be given voice.

Whether Eric is benefitting or suffering from all this public attention is our fault either way and just like a child acting out .....sometimes the best solution is to "just ignore".
as you might have noticed,by my absence on the forum over the last few months this has been my general policy regarding the rebel heart fiasco,ie just ignore..........but erics latest antics,and charlottes constant,holier than thou daily posts on facebook have left me no other choice ,lest we be all tarred with the same brush,and guilty by association of the fraud.
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:34   #340
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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Perhaps the most important thing my Dad impressed on me early on was "you never get better than the ocean".

After reading details about the sanitary conditions on the boat during the ill fated passage I have a better understanding about what may have caused not just his problems with a composting head, but with the level of health on his boat. Washing diapers in the same sink you prepare food and was dishes can't be a good idea, at least for me. While not the only cause of health problems RH had it certainly did not help.
Did he say they were short on water too? Water shortage and inability to make fresh water is a deal breaker period, sanitation or not (helps to be able to rinse those dishes though ). Kids and parents dehydrated. No chance to make it a few more weeks, or even a few more days. I was rooting for them to make it to paradise
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:38   #341
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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He's never been without a job. It was the entire purpose of him owning a SAT phone. He's works in IT for a financial business. Not sure what they pay on the west coast, but jobs like that on the east coast command $100k +.

Got a link to confirm this job ?
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:45   #342
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Got a link to confirm this job ?
the blog is worth $400 a month for a start

VISITORS DAILY :
daily visitors
1 204
WEBSITE MARKET PRICE :
website market price
9 028 USD
MONTHLY ADVERTISING INCOME :
monthly advertising income
361 USD
ALEXA RANK OF HTTP://THEREBELHEART.COM :
website global rank
332292
GOOGLE PAGERANK OF HTTP://THEREBELHEART.COM :
google page rank
2
BACKLINKS DIRECTING TO HTTP://THEREBELHEART.COM :
backlinks
157
WEBUKA PAGE RANK:
webuka page rank
3.06
QUALITY WEBSITES - MOST RECENTLY ANALYZED
Latest Website Rank Alexa Rank Links Backlinks GPR Google Pagerank Worth (USD) Worth
1 Rebel Heart - The Saga of the Rebel Heart 332.292 157 2 9.028
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:46   #343
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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Did he say they were short on water too? Water shortage and inability to make fresh water is a deal breaker period, sanitation or not (helps to be able to rinse those dishes though ). Kids and parents dehydrated. No chance to make it a few more weeks, or even a few more days. I was rooting for them to make it to paradise
He had a watermaker.
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:52   #344
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Re: Parents Rescued by Navy Warship Plan to File Lawsuit

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He had a watermaker.
not much good when he only had 20 gallons of fuel, left to run it ,and no spare power.
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Old 11-07-2014, 18:56   #345
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

23 pages of posts, and one thing we all seem to be taking for granted is that the sat. phone was actually functional. From the blog and other posts, every other major system on the boat (autopilot, multiple radios, inverter, watermaker...) took a saltwater bath and crapped out. Was the phone, which was used every day, stored in some special way to avoid the bath? Was it fully charged before all the rest of the power went out? Right now all we have is the (to me) tarnished word of the protagonists that it was a service failure, not a hardware failure caused by local conditions.

To convince me on a jury I would want to see logs from Iridium that showed the phone attempted to connect to the system on the day in question, and that the connection was actively denied because the phone wasn't recognized. Anything less than that and it seems that we've found a convenient fall guy.
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