Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-10-2011, 12:12   #31
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Quest Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
oh the pirates life has vastly improved now that they are in a US jail....
Yet we are so humane with out prisons. Imagine if those pirates, all terrorists, enemy combatants, etc... all were locked up in US jails, our prison system would totally devastate our economy. In fact every pirate that is taken out of the way likely has 10 more waiting to step in. The whole country can turn pirate and in past years entire peoples have gone to war and destroyed entire civilizations, wiping all of them out.

these pirates should just be taken out where they are when they are caught and not even brought into the system. That is what happens in war.
I doubt anyone would regard their life as " better" in gaol, no matter where it is.

"That is what happens in war" Were not at war, simply because a few rich ( and frankly very stupid) white folk get killed does not make us "at war". Also not that even in war the Geneva convention applies and summary justice cannot be carried out against soldiers. Of course we could reclassify them as enemy combatants.....!

As democratic nations with a sense of social responsibility, we try these people according to our laws and that's right, no one is suggesting that they get away scot free. But this " eye for an eye" stuff is nonsense, should you be able to march down the street and shoot someone who was " alleged" to have shot one of yours, of course not, the posse and lynching mob have passed into history. its funny how we ensure there is legal process for our home grown murders, but them " funny foreigners" well of course they dont deserve such treatment ( see untermenschen)

The pirate problem in Somalia is a result of social, economic and political failure that has brought a country to its knees and made it ungovernable. Into that gap are people that exploit such desperate conditions and make use of local " fodder" to do their dirty work. Very few people actually want to do bad, most people would prefer an honest days pay for an honest days work, as would most Somalis.

Its worth noting that most hi-jacks, have been carried out in general without loss of life and the pirates have shown that they are not out to kill people. Most of the deaths have been the result of ham-fisted military intervention.

We have to work on the big picture solution, because until we do the actual problem will never be resolved.

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-10-2011, 16:18   #32
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,320
Re: Quest Pirates

These threads always seem to bring the social issue agruements. While I accept that social issues are a big part of the problem it isn't any different than the cause of most crime since time of man begain.

I don't care about the social causes of the pirate problem.

I just want the pirates stopped!!!!!!!
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-10-2011, 16:36   #33
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Quest Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
These threads always seem to bring the social issue agruements. While I accept that social issues are a big part of the problem it isn't any different than the cause of most crime since time of man begain.

I don't care about the social causes of the pirate problem.

I just want the pirates stopped!!!!!!!
Thats fine we all want that.

But the grubby reality of conflict resolution, is that you have to look behind the immediate violence and deal with the underlying issues. Piracy in Somalia is not random isolated acts of violence, it stems from a social situation that has been preyed upon. To resolve it to any degree of permanence we have to fix/deal with that underlying set of issues. This is true in Somalia as it is in Northern Ireland, Afghanistan or any other conflict. Military action may bring short term cessations or cause a certain amount of interdiction, but it is always incapable of solving the problem


In dealing with it, we will undoubtedly " negotiate with terrorists", a process overtly denied, and covertly carried out by all governments.

Yes we'all "want it stopped", unfortunately the way to do it is grubbly, devious and long winded.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-10-2011, 08:30   #34
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Re: Quest Pirates

The average life expectancy in Somalia is 50. It's the most dangerous country in the world and Mogadishu is the most dangerous city. They are in the midst of drought and famine so life expectancy is plummetting. There are 9 million people.

Somehow making piracy more dangerous then simply living in the country seems a quixotic task to me unless you do something to make the country safer but that will mean people will have to care about the people who live there since the biggest hurdle they face is political stability.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-10-2011, 08:47   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Re: Quest Pirates

I would like to think that my Canadian friends are familiar with Lt. Gen. Romeo Dallaire.
His experience in Rwanda really describes the politics.
Read "Shake Hands With The Devil"- "The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda"
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-10-2011, 09:10   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruising the Caribbean
Boat: Morgan 461
Posts: 96
Re: Quest Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
I would like to think that my Canadian friends are familiar with Lt. Gen. Romeo Dallaire.
His experience in Rwanda really describes the politics.
Read "Shake Hands With The Devil"- "The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda"
We're joking, of course.

Dallaire's book is eye-opening, a sad mea culpa by someone who cared too much for his own good.
__________________

__________________
enovillo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
At Least One More Sailor Dead at Hands of Pirates svBeBe Indian Ocean & Red Sea 36 12-09-2011 13:13



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.