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Old 05-10-2011, 07:09   #16
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Re: Quest Pirates

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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
how do you feel about giving those pirates $35,000 per year, food, housing, medical care and job security all within the confines of a secure safe jail? Perhaps that cost number is much higher.

Other countries deal with prisoners much differently, barely feeding them or not at all and no medical care. As soon as you invite people into the US prison system they start making more than the average wage earner. A cosy secure place to eat sleep and live. And we provide all of this for free to them. Of course being what people are, the prisoners themselves soon setup gangs to extort and terrorize each other in prison. Quite ungrateful folk.
Civilised society punishes transgressors by depriving them of their liberty. Not by subjecting them to punishment, torture or degrading treatment. Thats a decision most developed societies have accepted. The goal is rehabilitation.

The idea of state sponsored killings does not sit well with many societies and as a result capital punishment has been banned, in many countries. This is even the case in an increasing number of states in the US.

The cost is somewhat irrelevant, as its the cost of an orderly and humane society. Anyway from a European perspective, everyone is entitled to a home, medical care, education and social welfare or a job, even prisoners.

The solution in Putland, is to deal with the underlying situation rather then merely putting sticking plasters. Its worth noting that the vast majority of innocent deaths have occurred when "interventions" by armed forces has been botched, unfortunately more botches then success have occurred.

Military invention is fraught with issues as there are innocents mixed up in the "combat" ( ie crew). Hence intervention is really limited to intercepting pirates before they board vessles, yet only after it is clear that they are actually pirates.

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Old 05-10-2011, 07:25   #17
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Re: Quest Pirates

having sailed in the area fairly extensively(7red sea/goa transits)
,apart from the use of motherships that run on diesel
, most of the attacks are undertaken from small skiffs which use 2stroke outboards requiring large quantities of petrol.
where do they get their fuel from?
my guess would be yemen.....
stop the flow of gasoline to the pirates and overnight i belive their would be a large reduction in their ability to be at sea and conduct piracy.

just a thought.......
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:34   #18
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Re: Quest Pirates

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having sailed in the area fairly extensively(7red sea/goa transits)
,apart from the use of motherships that run on diesel
, most of the attacks are undertaken from small skiffs which use 2stroke outboards requiring large quantities of petrol.
where do they get their fuel from?
my guess would be yemen.....
stop the flow of gasoline to the pirates and overnight i belive their would be a large reduction in their ability to be at sea and conduct piracy.

just a thought.......
of course you can determine, sitting in Yemen, what part of teh petrol goes to the pirates. Thats grand then because obviously the rest of the country needs fuel

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Old 05-10-2011, 07:40   #19
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Re: Quest Pirates

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of course you can determine, sitting in Yemen, what part of teh petrol goes to the pirates. Thats grand then because obviously the rest of the country needs fuel

Dave
supply diesel by all means without infringing human rights.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:46   #20
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Re: Quest Pirates

I find it very hard to bleave this "live and let live" attitude towards these pirates who did these murders on this forum. I guess every time they come back from robbing and killing another cruising couple we should be on shore with a bag of money a pat on the back and a questioner as to why they do what they do. This is CRAP!
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:03   #21
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Re: Quest Pirates

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I find it very hard to bleave this "live and let live" attitude towards these pirates who did these murders on this forum. I guess every time they come back from robbing and killing another cruising couple we should be on shore with a bag of money a pat on the back and a questioner as to why they do what they do. This is CRAP!
I don't think anyone here is on the side of the pirates. But you seem to miss the point.
Bombing and killing a radical minority doesn't work.
Read the papers.
In an earlier post you posed the question--what about the children, etc.
We did not place children and family in this horrible circumstance.
Decisions made, in the face of advice about the dangers, apparently went unheeded as a second priority to the sailors.
I was told a long time ago--good luck is usually the result of advanced planning.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:09   #22
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Re: Quest Pirates

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how do you feel about giving those pirates $35,000 per year, food, housing, medical care and job security all within the confines of a secure safe jail? Perhaps that cost number is much higher.
sdowney.....We are not "giving" the pirates $35,000 a year. That is the cost of incarceration. And jailhouse food frankly is crap. I saw a show where the warden wouldn't eat it even while being chided on camera by the inmates. He ordered delivery. And that expensive housing is 60 to a room, the medical care sucks because they are under qualified and understaffed, and jailhouse pay is about 10 cents and hour and all of that usually goes for fine or restitution and no one but you calls US jails safe and secure. Let me be clear I'm no proponant of the pirates and they are all peices of s##t but making it out like prison is a great deal for them is a gross exagerration. I'll bet they'd rather be eating bugs and free in Somalia then be in prison. I would. BOB
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:16   #23
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Re: Quest Pirates

I must be missing your point maybe because you like to write a book when trying to make a point. They have 2 of the pirates responsible for the brutal murders of the cruisers aboard Quest. I say an eye for a eye. What punishment do you think these men should get?
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:19   #24
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Re: Quest Pirates

oh the pirates life has vastly improved now that they are in a US jail.

If they were in an African jail or even central america, the food you eat your friends bring you, the medical care is non existent, the crowding horrendous and the security is nill.

Life for many Americans on the outside should be so easy. Yes your free but mostly poor. The number of Americans on food stamps is now 45.75 million. The middle class is shrinking fast and turning into the poor.

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CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- A record number of Americans are now receiving food stamps, according to data released by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In May, there were 45.75 million recipients of the aid, up 2.5% from the previous month and 12% from May of 2010. The state of Alabama showed the biggest increase, almost 120%, with New Jersey, Nevada and North Carolina all seeing jumps in the 20% range. Every state posted a percentage increase, save North Dakota, which was essentially flat.
Yet we are so humane with out prisons. Imagine if those pirates, all terrorists, enemy combatants, etc... all were locked up in US jails, our prison system would totally devastate our economy. In fact every pirate that is taken out of the way likely has 10 more waiting to step in. The whole country can turn pirate and in past years entire peoples have gone to war and destroyed entire civilizations, wiping all of them out.

these pirates should just be taken out where they are when they are caught and not even brought into the system. That is what happens in war.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:29   #25
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Re: Quest Pirates

Lonestar,

It's not a "live and let live" attitude. It's the desire to solve a problem by addressing its cause rather than one of its symptoms.

No one's suggesting we should congratulate these people for their criminal behaviour (in fact, I'm quite glad these two were put away for life). But if we understand why they act like that and address the cause, we may be able to solve the problem permanently (or reduce it to a point where the risk to cruisers and commercial traffic is acceptable).

My opinion is that the cause of the problem is the lack of education and prosperity.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:39   #26
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Re: Quest Pirates

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My opinion is that the cause of the problem is the lack of education and prosperity.
I agree. The bigger question is if it's even fixable. Nonetheless these guys are still scum. BOB
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:58   #27
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Society has lost it, even in developed countries like UK. BBC had a 10 min interview with some of the thugs in the riots a few weeks ago and all agreed that they were simply stealing because it was easier than working, and if caught, jail time wasnt that bad...

I would bring back capital punishment to Europe, and hard labor for lesser crimes. Why do I have to live in fear in my own house???
There is ways the argument of the human rights for the criminals, but rarely hear about the human rights of the victims.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:05   #28
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Re: Quest Pirates

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Simply killing a couple of pirates... will do little to deter them.
Thats funny. Not deterred? With all due respect I think the dead ones will certainly be deterred from any further pirate acts.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:08   #29
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Re: Quest Pirates

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Thats funny. Not deterred? With all due respect I think the dead ones will certainly be deterred from any further pirate acts.
Didn't Captain Jack Sparrow, the most feared pirate of all, come back from the dead?
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:10   #30
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Re: Quest Pirates

Texas has had the death sentence for a long time and yet I do not see any reduction in the murder or rape rates. I just ran a search of the crime rates there. Maybe draconian measures don't work. Perhaps the answer isn't an eye for an eye. Albert Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The issue at the root if this problem is something no one wants to talk about and even fewer will admit. Somalia is just the canary in the coal mine, things are going to get way more out of hand before the dust finally settles. Hang on folks it is going to be a ride!
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