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Old 08-10-2017, 16:15   #46
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Wow! I know this is a thorny issue, and it's great that both sides are putting their respective views across......and I can see how it affects both.

I friend of mine fouled his prop' on a sailing boat on a pot line (he isn't rich, neither am I) and had to get the Coastguard to tow him in, then spend £50 on a diver to have the mess removed. Fortunately the conditions were such that is was an expense and inconvenience. Given different conditions the outcome could be far more serious.

I do not sail at night for this very reason.

It should be mandated that the marking of pots should include the name and contact details of the owner, so each and every time they do damage they can be responsible for the costs to the boat owner and the Coastguard, and of course sued for personal injury.



Please sign the petition.
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Old 08-10-2017, 16:41   #47
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
............ It should be mandated that the marking of pots should include the name and contact details of the owner, so each and every time they do damage they can be responsible for the costs to the boat owner and the Coastguard, and of course sued for personal injury......
In many states, they are required to be marked with the license number of the owner, but:

You are seriously saying that if a boater on a moving boat entangles his/her boat on a crab pot float or line, it's the waterman's fault?

You can't possibly be serious. If you ran into a dock, would it be the dock's fault? If you ran into an anchored boat, would it be the anchored boat's fault.

It's hard to figure what some people are being taught these days, but how about we take responsibility for our actions. Watch where you're going and don't hit things.
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Old 08-10-2017, 16:47   #48
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Yes I am serious, how can you see them at night? How easy is it to see them sailing into a low sun?

Your comparison to driving your boat into a dock is not a viable comparison.

Responsibility for our actions works both ways.
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Old 08-10-2017, 19:49   #49
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Yes I am serious, how can you see them at night? How easy is it to see them sailing into a low sun?

Your comparison to driving your boat into a dock is not a viable comparison.

Responsibility for our actions works both ways.
Exactly.
If "water men" were as good as some claim you'd think they'd , and to use a car analogy, have enough intelligence not to paint their gear the same colour as the road and then plonk it in the middle of the road or car park
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:40   #50
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
Yes I am serious, how can you see them at night? How easy is it to see them sailing into a low sun?

Your comparison to driving your boat into a dock is not a viable comparison.

Responsibility for our actions works both ways.
Yes, but in fact if the pot is in a legal place and properly marked -- the waterman is not legally responsible for damage in case you ran into it. Ron is right. In fact on the contrary -- you are responsible for destroying his gear.

They have as much right to be there as we do. His legal responsibility ends with placing the pot in a legal place and marking it properly.

I wouldn't go out without a rope cutter on the prop.

Some kind of AIS marking would protect both fishing gear and props.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:24   #51
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Some kind of AIS marking would protect both fishing gear and props.
This would only work if every pot and every boat had AIS and we all used it religiously.

Cheaper and just as effective would be for pot floats to be a bright colour, fitted with reflective tape and perhaps a simple, flashing yellow, LED lamp. Just an idea.

I don't want to damage a fisherman's livelihood any more than he wants to damage my boat so we both have a responsibility to avoid a "collision". I keep a watch for his pots but he should do what he can {afford} to make his gear as visible as possible.

3x 1l water bottles tied with some string a visible float does not make and believe me I have seen many of these bobbing around the Adriatic recently.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:02   #52
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

I think most will admit that this is largely a problem for cruisers in unfamiliar waters. Watermen's prime grounds, whether for lobster or crab, move predictably with water temperature and the seasons and in your local cruising grounds you probably know where they are and how to avoid them. If you're in unfamiliar waters, stick to channels and well travelled routes and you'll largely avoid them. Only real idiots place their pots and traps where they will get run over...gear is expensive.

Here in the Chesapeake crap pots are almost entirely located in fields and lines, in 15'-25' of water depending on the temperature. What makes this challenging is that range constitutes a large percentage of navigable water up here. But you just don't head into that water at night, if you can avoid it. On the whole traps here are on sinking lines, unconnected, and unless you run right over one you're safe.

Some watermen bring problems upon themselves. For some perplexing reason a lot of the crab pot floats here are painted black. WTF. Seriously? Perhaps it's to deter poaching but you'd think it's not very effective...poachers know where to go to find traps and painting them black is I would think a worse tradeoff to loosing them to props.

I consider it simply a cost of sharing the water, wherever I am. You can't paint all watermen with the same brush...some are responsible, some are not, and I suppose some are just not that smart.
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Old 09-10-2017, 12:35   #53
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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You have an unjustifiably low opinion of watermen. The great majority of them do care about what you think and try to be considerate. You might try actually talking to one of them, or at least read one of their forums, like .................. .
AH, you don't know me, have never met me and are not qualified to speak for me or speak to my opinions on anyone or anything. You are intentionally misunderstanding my posts to try and make me appear to be someone I am not.

I have not only talked to professional watermen, I have been friends with them and had them to dinner at my house. So much for your post.

Try to stay with what you know in the future.
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Old 09-10-2017, 12:53   #54
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Fortunately you weren't here in Maine where you can be charged the cost of replacement for destroying lobster gear. I have a line cutter on my prop shaft and a blade attached to a pole to help rid myself of pot warp. There's literally only feet between pot buoys in some places.
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Old 09-10-2017, 13:13   #55
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

If anyone has a bright idea as to how to make crab pot floats visible to boaters, they should be taking it to their state legislators. Posting it on a cruising forum isn't going to change anything.

AIS on floats? Seriously? That could be thousands of targets on the Chesapeake Bay. These pots are often 50' or less apart. Yellow? I suppose but they use colors to identify who owns what traps. You'll quickly run out of colors. A couple weeks in the water and they are all brown anyway.

Some markers now have short "sticks" on top that make them easier to see.
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Old 09-10-2017, 15:02   #56
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Fishing strobe on a stick

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...892192&alt=web
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Old 10-10-2017, 15:08   #57
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Interesting thread.
I come from Great lakes Lake Erie mostly. Not big probable there.
This my first season in Maine. Moored close to Georgetown. Great respect for people who make their living on the water.
I must say the pods are like goose poop on the Back river and Sheepscot river. They Constantly drop pods on my mooring ball commonly two at a time and then a couple within 50 feet . Fine except when I there is a 8-10 ft tide. When off mooring the pod lines foul my mooring line making it impossible to retrieve without getting in water. It has happened twice now. One time I was short handed and had to call marina to come out in a launch and untangle it. The other pods make it impossible ( well extremely challenging to make a straight run to my mooring. Okay it has helped me with my boat handling skills but when you are tired after long sail it is highly infringing. I feel I am paying for that spot to be hazard free.

I guess it is comes down to common sense and respect for others.
I am moored in 75' at high tide and about 66' at low tide.
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Old 10-10-2017, 16:09   #58
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
In many states, they are required to be marked with the license number of the owner, but:

You are seriously saying that if a boater on a moving boat entangles his/her boat on a crab pot float or line, it's the waterman's fault?

You can't possibly be serious. If you ran into a dock, would it be the dock's fault? If you ran into an anchored boat, would it be the anchored boat's fault.

It's hard to figure what some people are being taught these days, but how about we take responsibility for our actions. Watch where you're going and don't hit things.
Absolutely agree , take responsibility for your actions and don't leave buoys which are not suitably marked on the open sea .
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:29   #59
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
This would only work if every pot and every boat had AIS and we all used it religiously.

Cheaper and just as effective would be for pot floats to be a bright colour, fitted with reflective tape and perhaps a simple, flashing yellow, LED lamp. Just an idea.

I don't want to damage a fisherman's livelihood any more than he wants to damage my boat so we both have a responsibility to avoid a "collision". I keep a watch for his pots but he should do what he can {afford} to make his gear as visible as possible.

3x 1l water bottles tied with some string a visible float does not make and believe me I have seen many of these bobbing around the Adriatic recently.
I like your flashing light idea, which would help a lot.

In some places, pots are marked with tall flags and radar reflectors - also really good.

But why do you think AIS markers would be of value only if everyone used them? Every one pot with AIS would be one less risk for all the boats which receive AIS, which is surely the majority by now.

Pots are a much bigger problem at night, and I guess few boats which do much night sailing, lack AIS.

Someone just needs to develop a super cheap, short range device. Could be put on the old "B" class protocol together with MOB beacons and so forth.
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Old 13-10-2017, 13:43   #60
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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But why do you think AIS markers would be of value only if everyone used them? Every one pot with AIS would be one less risk for all the boats which receive AIS, which is surely the majority by now.
DH,

As a % how much of the fleet do you think actually have, and use religiously, AIS? Charter boats are highly unlikely to have it fitted or use it if it is fitted (or even know how to use it).

I've toyed with the idea of getting an AIS unit but TBH the cost puts me off for the sailing I do for the vast majority of the time. Sure if I were sailing across the Channel regularly or other busy shipping lanes then I'd seriously consider it but around the Adriatic I can't see the point as I can count the number of commercial vessels on the fingers of both hands I've come across. And I have never needed to contact them or had any interactions other than the occasional wave from a deck hand.

I'm not dismissing AIS for bluewater cruisers or as I mentioned busy shipping lanes but I doubt the vast majority of boats were I sail have it fitted and I suspect that is true of many a "weekend warrior". Additionally do we really want AIS cluttered up with signals from fishing pots when hi vis flags and/or yellow flashing lights would be just as effective?

Cheers and cold beers

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