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Old 10-09-2017, 17:37   #31
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
Watermen
Had to google it up

https://www.surfersjournal.com/featu...is-a-waterman/

Guessing its the same thing as anyone with a pulse and a boat in the US calling themselves captain.
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Old 10-09-2017, 17:39   #32
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Really?
It might have made sense to you but we weren't talking about pumpkins. Were you answering a different thread?
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Old 10-09-2017, 17:42   #33
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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It might have made sense to you but we weren't talking about pumpkins. Were you answering a different thread?
You can't figure out what taking your head off and putting a pumpkin on could mean when we are talking about poor decision making on where to lay pots?
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Old 10-09-2017, 17:56   #34
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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You can't figure out what taking your head off and putting a pumpkin on could mean when we are talking about poor decision making on where to lay pots?
And you can't just say what you mean in the first place? Were you trying to be cute? It didn't work.

Watermen put their traps where they expect to fine whatever it is they are trying to catch. That's not poor decision making on their part, it's good decision making.

Deal with it. They don't care about your opinion.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:55   #35
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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. . . Watermen put their traps where they expect to fine whatever it is they are trying to catch. That's not poor decision making on their part, it's good decision making.

Deal with it. They don't care about your opinion.
They might not care about some WAFIs opinion, but if they are not complete idiots, they might care about the fact that laying pots in a marked channel is Class 3 misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of up to $500 PER POT and/or 6 months in jail.

"Good decision making" to disobey the law, and endanger vessels operating in marked channels, possibly at night? That seems like a really weird point of view to me. I'm absolutely sure that, as a responsible, considerate, and law-abiding person, you would never do such a thing, yourself.

§ 28.2-710. Unlawful to place crab, eel, or fish pots in certain channels; penalty.
It is unlawful to place or maintain any crab, eel, or fish pot in a navigable channel which has navigation aids installed or approved by any agency of the United States government or in any portion of a government marked channel of a river, bay, estuary, creek or inlet. . . . A violation of this section is a Class 3 misdemeanor.


§ 28.2-710 Code of Virginia


Maryland has similar laws. In the Maryland part of the Chesapeake Bay, crab pots may be placed only in designated areas, and must be identified with the owner's name and license number. Placing a pot outside of the designated areas is worth a $1000 fine per pot, and/or a YEAR in jail.



You make it sound like watermen are some kind of degenerates right out of the movie Deliverance. I've known watermen all my life -- there are some bad apples, of course (just like there are bad apples among us sailors), but in my experience at least 90% of them are reasonable, considerate, law-abiding folks.

Of course, you don't want to go messing with their pots! That's also a criminal offense, by the way!
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:13   #36
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

First world problem. Spend sometime sailing in Asia, youll head back to the UK and be relieved at how few things are in the water.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:18   #37
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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You may or may not know this and you may or may not care, but in many places, including most of the USA, "tampering" with commercial traps or pots is a pretty serious offence (it's illegal). You could find yourself in serious trouble. The waterman won't know you destroyed his trap and won't know that you were "teaching him a lesson". All that will happen is, a trap full of crabs or lobsters will die and go to waste. Cutting the line is childish and accomplishes nothing.

Commercial watermen don't place their traps to obstruct you, they place them where they expect the fish, lobster, crabs, etc. to be. And they don't consider themselves to be "mariners", they consider themselves to be watermen, crabbers, fishermen, etc.
If you run around purposely pulling floats and cutting them free, you are correct.

But if you snag a pot in the channel and cut it free while disentangling, not likely the authorities would question you over it. And yes, if enough go to bottom (possibly with the crabs set free and the side of the trap gets torn out freeing them and coincidentally protecting other crabs from being caught), they will either get the point or go bankrupt.

Or this could be done as a profit making scheme. Designated channels are already typically illegal to place pots, so set up a contract where a designated person is authorized to take illegally placed traps and receives no money other than what they get reselling them. If you are worried about them getting out of hand, a GPS enabled camera to snap a photo prior to retrieval to document the location of the trap would suffice.

A good extension would be in a lot of heavily traveled bays or even near shore areas (no narrow channel), boats tend to follow predictable routes. Designated corridors could be set aside for travel. 1/4-1/2 mile wide corridor
in a 10 mile wide bay without pots would make many of these areas safer to traverse and really wouldn't inconvenience the crabbers.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:15   #38
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Again, deal with it. A bunch of posts on a web forum don't change the world. These watermen don't care what you think.
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Old 11-09-2017, 14:18   #39
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
You may or may not know this and you may or may not care, but in many places, including most of the USA, "tampering" with commercial traps or pots is a pretty serious offence (it's illegal). You could find yourself in serious trouble. The waterman won't know you destroyed his trap and won't know that you were "teaching him a lesson". All that will happen is, a trap full of crabs or lobsters will die and go to waste. Cutting the line is childish and accomplishes nothing.

Commercial watermen don't place their traps to obstruct you, they place them where they expect the fish, lobster, crabs, etc. to be. And they don't consider themselves to be "mariners", they consider themselves to be watermen, crabbers, fishermen, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am annoyed by trap floats in the channel as much as anyone but there's nothing either you or I can do about it. Commercial fishing, crabbing, lobstering, etc. has been around far longer than recreational boating. It's a tradition and it's something you and all boaters have to deal with. Including me.
Hey rwidman: Yeah, I do care about the legal aspects of boating, but I care even more about what happens to someone else's gear, life or livelihood and that includes mine. And yes my "rant" was pretty aggressive. The OP just made me visualize being underneath my boat cutting a line out of the wheel and being hit repeatedly in the head by the hull. Been there, done that enough. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who makes their living from the sea and I give them all the room possible when I'm out there. I would also never tamper with a fisherman's gear just because I didn't like where it was placed. And if I damaged any of their gear through negligence or error then I hold myself liable for its replacement. I just want the same respect in return. Clearly marking your fishing gear for day and night visibility doesn't seem like too much to ask. As far as committing any offending gear to the deep, that's more aggravation talking than actual probability although cutting the trap's pennant line free of entanglement might have pretty much the same effect. And just for the record I don't consider myself a "recreational" boater. Even when I'm out there on a non-commercial basis I'm still a professional, available to help anyone, anytime, knowledgeable about the rules, courteous, respectful and handling myself and my craft in a responsible manner. I understand that's where you're coming from as well. I just don't think commercial mariners of whatever designation (and I do call them by their proper names when referring to individuals) get a break from being mindful of other boaters simply because they do it for a living.
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Old 11-09-2017, 14:49   #40
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Sometimes if the law is on your side all it takes is a phone call to the right person to get it enforced. About 8 years ago the crabbers in the vicinity of Oriental NC were placing their traps in the middle of marked channels even though the NC has a law prohibiting the placement of traps in marked channels. After cutting another trap line off of one of my props I was pretty much fed up. The narrow channel in question runs east-west and in the evening the sun's glare made it impossible to see the floats. I called the local marine police office and asked them to enforce the law and even quoted the statute to them. Nothing happened, for a month or two and I ran over another float coming in one evening. I then called the head of the department in Raleigh and asked him why his officers were not enforcing the law. I also gave him the name of the local lieutenant that I had previously spoken with. The next weekend there was not one trap in the channel. I passed the word to many of the other captains in my marina about who to call if they had the problem again. I left NC 6 years ago, but went up that same channel just last week. There were still no traps in the channel, despite many near by. I don't know if the locals have had to complain again or if the crabbers just got used to obeying the law.
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Old 11-09-2017, 15:27   #41
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Query: does anyone know if the lobstermen typically have line cutters on their own props?

Jim
When I lived in Maine it was mix I saw shaft razors and line cutters on a number of lobster boats and some without. A few even had cages around the prop to keep line out.
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Old 11-09-2017, 15:38   #42
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Reading recent post I remember once drifting with the current before returnig to my slip the boat came to a stop as if the anchor had a spring: slowly stoping and then runing against the current stern upstream. Under water I went to find a half full of water plastic bottle at the end of a wire, with hooks every 2 or 3 yards (here they call them "ESPINELES") tangled in my rudder.
Not wanting to ruin a poor fisherman´s line, I started to pull the wire to get my rudder free and have chance to drift away, but found myself under the stern with a huge stingray strugling on the first hook almost in my face, so I simply cut the wire and went on board ˇˇˇTO CHANGE MY UNDERWEAR!!!!

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Old 11-09-2017, 21:42   #43
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Again, deal with it. A bunch of posts on a web forum don't change the world. These watermen don't care what you think.
You have an unjustifiably low opinion of watermen. The great majority of them do care about what you think and try to be considerate. You might try actually talking to one of them, or at least read one of their forums, like www.bluecrab.info.

Some quotes from professional crabbers:

Capt. Frank:

"Trap floats and lines in the channel are hazards to navigation and should simply be seized and removed. Many use floating polypropylene lines too."

Riverpop:

"Frank, we often lay our traps near to, but not in the channel.. some boaters call the Police for no reason..I often have a trapline get snagged on the keel of a sailboat... and that is understandable."

Capt. Frank:

"Gary, what idiot lays his traps in the channel? Rental boats I assume. But they are not jugging usually or in the Shrewsbury."

Riverpop:

"There are some boaters in the Shrewsbury that feel they own the entire river. I try to work with everyone, there are always sailboats where I crab, and from time to time they hook a trap, it is understandable. The jet-skiers using the floats as a slalom course, pisses me off a bit."


https://www.bluecrab.info/forum/index.php?topic=82098.0


In another thread:

Riverpop:

"my 2 cents : work out any problems with any other crabber one on one. If someone sets markers at a ridiculous distance apart from each other, I will set in between your markers. The State Police receive complaints about floats regularly... lets not give them a reason to attempt to ban them.
My fear for years is that someday they would put a restriction on the amount of traps a crabber could use by rewriting the recreational crabber rules.
I know the Patcong is tough sharing the creek with jetskiers.... on the shrews it is jetskiers, tubers, and SAILBOATS- many sailboaters have unlimited funds and do not like floats... I work with everybody out there so my way of crabbing can remain the same."





Watermen are folks too. Show them some respect and consideration and you can usually expect to get the same in return.

* Report floats in channels -- they are illegal, and these rules are enforced.

* Don't ever mess with their gear.

* Try to stay out of their way and give them room.
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Old 13-09-2017, 09:30   #44
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

Incidentally, the marking of crab/lobster pots is a current issue in the UK. There is a formal petition in front of Parliament requesting better regulation:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200001


If you are UK-based, you might consider signing it. It is sponsored by that excellent organization, of which I am a proud member, the Cruising Association.

See:

CA Lobster Pot Campaign | CA
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Old 13-09-2017, 09:41   #45
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Re: Poorly marked lobster pots

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Incidentally, the marking of crab/lobster pots is a current issue in the UK. There is a formal petition in front of Parliament requesting better regulation:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200001


If you are UK-based, you might consider signing it. It is sponsored by that excellent organization, of which I am a proud member, the Cruising Association.

See:

CA Lobster Pot Campaign | CA


I've signed it. I also emailed my MP.
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