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Old 30-09-2015, 11:30   #1
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Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

Reportedly went down like a rock after hitting a rock:

Lucky escape for sailors after their schooner sinks « Guernsey Press

The Little Russel, a channel between Guernsey and Herm, has viciously strong tidal currents. The tidal range in SPP is over 10 meters or 33 feet. I am guessing that the Polish sailors, used to the tideless Baltic, were just not accustomed to such conditions. You can be swept onto the rocks in the twinkle of the eye in that place.

Great they were all rescued.
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Old 30-09-2015, 13:32   #2
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

They were probably surprised that the tidal stream runs very strong at HW and LW (my chart says exceeding 5kts at springs).

In fact, the tide range wasn't so strong on Friday: only 6.3m at St Peter Port, according to my almanac. This morning, it was 9.9m. On Friday, they probably had only about 3.3kts tidal stream...

Alain
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Old 30-09-2015, 14:20   #3
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

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They were probably surprised that the tidal stream runs very strong at HW and LW (my chart says exceeding 5kts at springs).

In fact, the tide range wasn't so strong on Friday: only 6.3m at St Peter Port, according to my almanac. This morning, it was 9.9m. On Friday, they probably had only about 3.3kts tidal stream...

Alain
Maybe you're right.

We've had phenomenal tides here the last three days. Because of a freak combination of a "supermoon", the moon at nadir, that is, a Blue Moon, plus the eclipse, plus exceptionally high barometric pressure. I just now bumped the bottom getting into my mooring, for the first time ever, when there should have been 3 meters of water. Day before yesterday, we were coming in from Cowes, and the ebb tide in the Hamble River was rushing like a white water river in the mountains -- never seen anything like it. By the time we got to our mooring (several miles upstream), the bottom was showing everywhere and we couldn't get into our mooring, and had to raft up to our neighbor for a few hours. Then yesterday, I came back from London to find my dinghy high and dry sitting in the mud -- in a spot supposed to be well below chart datum.

Aren't tidal waters fun!
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Old 30-09-2015, 14:26   #4
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

[QUOTE=Dockhead;1926749]Maybe you're right.

We've had phenomenal tides here the last three days. Because of a freak combination of a "supermoon", the moon at nadir, that is, a Blue Moon, plus the eclipse, plus exceptionally high barometric pressure. I just now bumped the bottom getting into my mooring, for the first time ever, when there should have been 3 meters of water. Day before yesterday, we were coming in from Cowes, and the ebb tide in the Hamble River was rushing like a white water river in the mountains -- never seen anything like it. By the time we got to our mooring (several miles upstream), the bottom was showing everywhere and we couldn't get into our mooring, and had to raft up to our neighbor for a few hours. Then yesterday, I came back from London to find my dinghy high and dry sitting in the mud -- in a spot supposed to be well below chart datum.

Aren't tidal waters fun!


Have any photos??
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:06   #5
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Reportedly went down like a rock after hitting a rock:

Lucky escape for sailors after their schooner sinks « Guernsey Press

The Little Russel, a channel between Guernsey and Herm, has viciously strong tidal currents. The tidal range in SPP is over 10 meters or 33 feet. I am guessing that the Polish sailors, used to the tideless Baltic, were just not accustomed to such conditions. You can be swept onto the rocks in the twinkle of the eye in that place.

Great they were all rescued.
I remember when we first started cruising the area regularly, reading the comment from a local professional ship's pilot, in the introduction to a yachtsmans pilot book guide, saying 'I passed that rock every day for xyz years before I hit it!'

The tidal range and stream rates are extreme in the area and lining up transits is far preferable to simply pointing the boat on a compass heading in staying on safe track out of trouble. At half tide height, which is the same on all tides, many rocks are well submerged and mistakes forgiven but below that beware! Some rocks too would be difficult (but not impossible) to hit as the current is so fierce it tends to sweep you clear. Lovely place to cruise but not ideal for beginners and especially so in times of bad weather or poor visibility both of which are quite common occurrences. We learned to navigate around the Channel islands well before the days of electronic navigation other than a simple 'Seafarer' depthsounder and rudimentary 'Seafix 'radio direction finder.
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Old 10-11-2015, 00:01   #6
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

The yacht SY "Melina" was a ferrocement. Perhaps this is why it sunk so fast.

http://melina.wroclaw.pl/wp-content/...na-instr40.pdf
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:10   #7
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

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The yacht SY "Melina" was a ferrocement. Perhaps this is why it sunk so fast.

http://melina.wroclaw.pl/wp-content/...na-instr40.pdf


BEWare my anti malware rejected that link as containing malware...
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Old 10-11-2015, 06:27   #8
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

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Originally Posted by Browning View Post
The yacht SY "Melina" was a ferrocement. Perhaps this is why it sunk so fast.

http://melina.wroclaw.pl/wp-content/...na-instr40.pdf


A local Beneteau hit an undocumented underwater obstruction which punched a 8cm hole through the hull, it went down in two minutes. A holed hull fills fast, much faster than the bilge pump can handle.
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Old 10-11-2015, 13:08   #9
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

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A local Beneteau hit an undocumented underwater obstruction which punched a 8cm hole through the hull, it went down in two minutes. A holed hull fills fast, much faster than the bilge pump can handle.
Depends on the bilge pump. Or pumps. My four, or even one of the four, will easily keep up with an 8cm hole at the depth of my deepest through-hull.

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Old 19-11-2015, 05:54   #10
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

The Little Russel is not A place to stare at a chart plotter and think I am ok here. You can easily be traveling sideways.!!

The best computer on the boat is between your ears and behind your eyes !!

As said earlier, "Transits are essential"
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Old 19-11-2015, 06:07   #11
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Depends on the bilge pump. Or pumps. My four, or even one of the four, will easily keep up with an 8cm hole at the depth of my deepest through-hull.
8 cm = 3.14961 inches

A 3" hole (8cm), at 3' deep will flood at over 300 gallons per minute (GPM), or over 18,000 GPH.
A 3" hole (8cm), at only 1' deep will flood at over 175 per minute (GPM), or over 10,500 GPH.

http://www.whsyc.org/Flooding/Flooding.html

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...44YgIaYU1ZHEeA
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Old 19-11-2015, 07:04   #12
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

Further to my post #11.
From the:
U.S. Navy Salvor’s Handbook
1-4.1 Determining Flooding Amounts................. 1-13

Water quantity flowing through an opening is proportional to the opening’s size and depth below the water.
To calculate flow: Q = CA x square root of H
where:
Q = flow rate
C = 8 to measure flow in cubic feet or 3,600 to measure flow rate in gph
A = hole area in square feet (or any fraction thereof)
H = the depth of the centre of the hole below the surface

Goto page 1.13 ➥ http://www.maritime.org/doc/pdf/salvorshandbook.pdf
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:02   #13
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Re: Polish Schooner Sinks in the Little Russel

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8 cm = 3.14961 inches

A 3" hole (8cm), at 3' deep will flood at over 300 gallons per minute (GPM), or over 18,000 GPH.
A 3" hole (8cm), at only 1' deep will flood at over 175 per minute (GPM), or over 10,500 GPH.

Flooding.html

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...44YgIaYU1ZHEeA
That is one of the most interesting and scarey statistics I have seen on here.

I doubt that my bilge pump could handle that !
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