Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-08-2012, 00:11   #226
Registered User
 
Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Indiana
Boat: 1984 Johnson Boatworks Inland Scow, 20' and a 1975 sailMFG Bandit 19 Pocket Cruiser
Posts: 204
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
What is the American definition of a storm, Tropical storm,

Minimum wind speed, for both, It will give us a bit of perspective on how strong the wind was on the day,

We dont get tropical storms in the Southern Ocean,

But if there is a storm warning, You just dont go out in it,
Here you go: Reproduced under public domain from a US Government Public Server with right to republish with attribution:

Quote:
Tropical Definitions

Know your hurricane season terminology
Tropical storms and hurricanes are no strangers to Southern New England. Since 1900, 49 systems have impacted Southern New England, of which 25 were hurricanes and 15 were tropical storms. Any tropical storm or hurricane is capable of bringing a combination of high winds and large storm surges, and on occasion, inland flooding along area rivers and streams.
To better prepare yourself for a possible hurricane strike, you should be familiar with the different terms that may be used. This page will briefly define some terms related to tropical storms and hurricanes.
Tropical Depression: A tropical system in which the maximum sustained surface wind is 33 knots (38 mph) or less. Though the wind speeds are significantly less than those in a hurricane, tropical depressions are capable of producing tremendous rainfall amounts. During the week of July 3rd through the 7th in 1994, Tropical Storm Alberto moved inland and weakened to a depression. It then moved into Georgia and produced up to 28 inches of rainfall causing catastrophic river and small stream flooding.
Tropical Storm: A tropical system in which the maximum sustained surface wind ranges from 34 to 63 knots (39 to 73 mph). These systems are also intense rainfall producers, but often cause enough wind and waves to cause some beach erosion and minor boat damage.
Hurricane: A tropical system in which the maximum sustained surface wind is 64 knots (74 mph) or greater. This is the worst and strongest of all tropical systems. New England was the recipient of one of the worst hurricanes ever, when the Great New England Hurricane of 1938 came crashing ashore on September 21st.
Hurricane Watch: An announcement for specific areas that hurricane conditions pose a possible threat to coastal areas within 36 hours. In New England, due to the rapid acceleration of most of our hurricanes, it is a necessity that you take action during the watch.
Hurricane Warning: A warning that hurricane conditions, including sustained winds of 74 mph or greater, associated with a hurricane are expected in a specified coastal area within 24 hours or less. Any preparedness measures must be rushed to completion once the warning is issued. High winds and coastal flooding will develop many hours before the eye of the storm actually comes ashore.
Hurricane Wind Watch: An announcement for inland areas that sustained winds of 74 mph or greater associated with a hurricane are anticipated beyond the coastal areas. The actual occurrence, timing and location are still uncertain.
Hurricane Wind Warning: An announcement for inland areas that sustained winds of 74 mph or greater associated with a hurricane are anticipated beyond the coastal areas in the next 6 to 24 hours.
Tropical Storm Watch: An announcement for specific areas that tropical storm conditions pose a possible threat to coastal areas within 36 hours.
Tropical Storm Warning: A warning that tropical storm conditions, including sustained winds of 39-73 mph, associated with a tropical storm are expected in a specified coastal area within 24 hours or less. Any preparedness measures should be completed as soon as possible.
Tropical Storm Wind Watch: An announcement for inland areas that sustained winds of 39-73 mph or greater associated with a tropical storm are anticipated beyond the coastal areas. The actual occurrence, timing and location are still uncertain.
Tropical Storm Wind Warning: An announcement for inland areas that sustained winds of 39-73 mph or greater associated with a tropical storm are anticipated beyond the coastal areas in the next 6 to 24 hours.
Hurricane Eye: A relatively calm area in the center of the storm. In this area, winds are light and the sky often is only partly covered by clouds. Never go outside in the eye of a storm. This period of relative calm may only last 10 to 20 minutes before hurricane force winds and torrential rains return from the opposite direction.
Storm Surge: An abnormal rise in sea level accompanying a hurricane or other intense storm. The height of the storm surge is the difference between the observed level of the sea surface and the astronomical tide that would have occurred in the absence of the storm. In Southern New England, storm surges of 10 to 20 feet have occurred, totally devastating the coastline.
Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale: A scale ranging from 1 to 5 based on the maximum sustained wind speed of the hurricane. This can be used to give an estimate of the potential property damage and flooding expected along the coast from a hurricane. Extreme care should be used if using this scale as a quide to preparation steps when the sustained wind speed brings the storm within 10 mph of the next highest scale category. There is not much difference between a 110 mph (Cat 2) storm and a 111 mph (Cat 3) storm.
Hurricane Local Statement (HLS): A public release prepared by the local National Weather Service office serving the threatened area. This statement will provide specific details on: expected and observed weather conditions, evacuation decisions made by local officials, and other precautions necessary to protect life and property.
For a more complete list, please visit this page at the National Hurricane Center
Tropical Definitions
__________________

__________________
"Dum vivimus, vivamus! -- 'While we live, let us live!"-Heinlein (Among others)
My Refit and Travel Blog
Tom Stormcrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 03:59   #227
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,573
Images: 240
Re: Pitch In And Help

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, CapnBrown.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 06:12   #228
Registered User
 
CapnBrown's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL
Boat: Ed Hostman Tristar 38 Trimaran
Posts: 50
Re: Pitch In And Help

The problem with this particular TS was that it stalled somewhere between Crystal River and the pan handle. It's heavy winds beat us up for 3 days without much of a break at all. Top winds got up to around 70mph but the steady thrashing was at 40mph to 50mph with storm surge. The fairly protected Boca Ciega bay had 4 to 5 foot waves continuous for 3 days and nights. The day before those three built and the day after lessened so you could probably add more time. But watching these boats out there take a beating hour after hour after hour you really get a sense of how much punishment they have to take out there. My trimaran rode it out on all chain with a single relatively large Bruce. I must have been hit by some monster wave broadside at some point because it managed to sheer off my rudder. I'm in the process of building a new one.

So just because it was a TS and not a hurricane don't assume this was "mild". I would have rather had a cat 1 for a day than this thing for 3. 10 more mph wouldn't have made that much difference and 48 fewer hours of beating would have been nice.


And Thanks for the welcome Gord! Glad to see so much activity.
__________________
CapnBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 06:44   #229
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,616
Re: Pitch In And Help

Thanks for the clarification on the wind speeds, Tom,
No, I wouldnt like to be anchored in that,

My boat ended up on the beach in 2 metre swells and in excess of 35 knot winds, But it was at the end of an inlet, so the waves got channeled into the inlet, Had 2 anchors out, one a Bruce, and one a Danforth which got bent at 30 degrees to the shaft,

Welcome Capn Brown, Thanks for your added info also,

I wouldnt call it mild either,

Cheers,
Brian,
__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 07:38   #230
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Pitch In And Help

there is no such thing as a MILD ts.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 17:36   #231
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
Re: Pitch In And Help

Another shot Jay took that probably discouraged the hell out of him was a crooked jerk ripping him off. the second aforementioned boat he had was supposed to be traded for an installed running Perkins and an installed marine genset. I havent been back there since the winter but I know Jay mentioned hed be glad when he would be able to motor in and fill tanks and pumpout. I did canvas for the same jerk who took months to pay when he promised pay on completion. I heard on the grapevine the guy stripped anything of value from the boat and abandoned it when he found out the keel was concrete and not lead.Then didnt hold up his end of the deal. Jay was making an effort to get the boat in some kind of shape to cruise.
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 17:45   #232
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post
I'm sorry, but there is nothing mild about a tropical storm. Even here in Gulfport.
I'm not suggesting that a properly anchored boat could not or should not have been able to ride it out. Just saying that it was a pretty substantial storm.
I've ridden out similar ones and didn't enjoy the experience much.

But, there is good news people. We should be gladdened. Capt'n Brown has spoken to Jay and reports that Jay is truly reevaluating his situation.
I would really like to see Jay get his life on track. If it takes a land yacht. Great. I wish him the best.

There is another thread going about derelict boats and irresponsible boater in Florida if you feel the desire to debate it, but please, lets keep this one free from the pointlessness of that debate and open for further updates on this specific case.

You all know that if a thread gets too hot it gets closed down.

Thanks,
Steve
Oh c'mon, Steve. That WAS a mild tropical storm! I was on my boat the entire time and the boat hardly moved. Now the thunderstorm we had a year ago April -- my boat heeled over 30 degrees right in the slip.

And, thank you very much, but I had a point. You don't agree with it, but that's not the same was "pointless."

The storm wasn't that bad; he should have been prepared for it (we had plenty of warning); and he was not. That's how it was.

Everyone admires YOU for what you did, but I have no admiration for "Cap'n" Jay. It's long past time for him to take responsibility for the consequences of his actions. If he does that because of your actions, then you *really* have done a great thing, but it doesn't change the facts: as tropical storms go, that wasn't much in Gulfport. Anyone who has a boat and isn't prepared for what Debby brought is terribly under-prepared.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 17:48   #233
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
I was in Tampa this past week and was able to connect with Knothead, who took me and a friend out for a sail.

What a gentleman! What you see and read on here is the same as he is in person; someone who is passionate about sailing and has a strong sense of community, and not only to the sailing one. Bonus was the time spent with Knothead and his wife, as well as a few friends who came by. We are so grateful for the invitation for supper.

When you look up the definition of "good people", I am sure Wikipedia simply says, see "Knothead".

Here is a picture of svPromise at anchor. It is not seaworthy, but at least it is safe for the time being. Hopefully it will be moved on the hard to either be fixed or disposed of.



It was sad to see that svPromise was not the only derelict boat. We sailed by one whose rode is not long for this world, another boat was washed up on shore (albeit not on a beach) and a third had sunk and only its mast was showing. I'm not sure what the solution to these issues are, but just as the community came together to move svPromise, it may require some collective brain power to come up with alternatives to boats sitting in plain view that motivates some legislators to further restrict sailing activities.

If the sailing community comes up with a way to self-police itself, that type of restrictive legislation and regulation may be mitigated. As always, it is the tiny minority that cause problem for the greater responsible majority.

If you're talking about the motor-sailor aground on the edge of the bayou, it's been there a very long time. He's run aground before and it was impounded by the Coast Guard in the recent past.

The one that is sunk near the pier did indeed go down during Debby.

There is another one out there (unless it's been moved) that has no mast.

I think these problems will always be with us to some extent. Boats are so emotional -- it really does feel like putting a beloved pet down.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 17:53   #234
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
What is the American definition of a storm, Tropical storm,

Minimum wind speed, for both, It will give us a bit of perspective on how strong the wind was on the day,

We dont get tropical storms in the Southern Ocean,

But if there is a storm warning, You just dont go out in it,

"A "tropical storm" usually refers to a tropical low pressure area whose winds have increased to at least 35 knots (about 40 mph) but less than 65 knots (about 75 mph, which then becomes "hurricane" strength).

A tropical storm goes through a "tropical depression" stage first, which has winds less than 35 knots, and a closed cyclonic circulation. Some tropical waves can be very strong, with peak winds of at least 35 knots, but if they do not have a closed cyclonic (circular) circulation, they are classified as a wave rather than a depression. "

Source: What is a tropical_storm?

Like hurricanes, the strongest winds are around the center. Debby was on the low end of the wind scale for tropical storms and the center wasn't anywhere near Gulfport. We had rough water for several days but nothing live-aboards should have trouble handling. When a TS is near hurricane strength AND you're near the eye, yeah, it can be bad and do a lot of damage. But Gulfport was brushed by this storm. It did not have anything resembling a direct hit.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 17:54   #235
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by elliebell View Post
Then you weren't here for it. It was a doozy for a TS bordering on Hurricane. At least that's what we experienced.
I wasn't HERE for it? No, it didn't come close to bordering on a hurricane *in Gulfport.*

I was on my boat the entire time. I could see Boca Ciega Bay from my slip.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 18:00   #236
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBrown View Post
The problem with this particular TS was that it stalled somewhere between Crystal River and the pan handle. It's heavy winds beat us up for 3 days without much of a break at all. Top winds got up to around 70mph but the steady thrashing was at 40mph to 50mph with storm surge. The fairly protected Boca Ciega bay had 4 to 5 foot waves continuous for 3 days and nights. The day before those three built and the day after lessened so you could probably add more time. But watching these boats out there take a beating hour after hour after hour you really get a sense of how much punishment they have to take out there. My trimaran rode it out on all chain with a single relatively large Bruce. I must have been hit by some monster wave broadside at some point because it managed to sheer off my rudder. I'm in the process of building a new one.

So just because it was a TS and not a hurricane don't assume this was "mild". I would have rather had a cat 1 for a day than this thing for 3. 10 more mph wouldn't have made that much difference and 48 fewer hours of beating would have been nice.


And Thanks for the welcome Gord! Glad to see so much activity.

I would like to see a weather report showing 70 mph winds in the Gulfport area. It did hang around a long time, but ... I'm sorry, but both tropical storms and hurricanes frequently do that ... and boaters should be prepared for that. A TS isn't a thunderstorm that passes over within 45 minutes.

Hurricane Dora, not a big hurricane, stayed off the coast of Jacksonville (and of course some distance north and south) for three days before coming in. It saturated the ground so completely that by the time the real wind started coming in, giant live oak trees with HUGE rootballs were knocked over. I was attending JU at the time and it was very depressing to see all those beautiful old trees knocked down on the banks of the St. Johns River. Another time when I was in graduate school a storm stayed off the coast of Fort Lauderdale for days (my parents lived there, and I was visiting at the time).

What I have hollered "foul" on all along was "captain" Jay's lack of preparation for the waters on which he lived. This was nothing unusual. What's unusual is a fast-moving hurricane (Hurricane Bob raced up the eastern coast to Cape Cod and Rhode Island at 35 mph).

I've been around hurricanes throughout much of my life.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 18:01   #237
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Thanks for the clarification on the wind speeds, Tom,
No, I wouldnt like to be anchored in that,

My boat ended up on the beach in 2 metre swells and in excess of 35 knot winds, But it was at the end of an inlet, so the waves got channeled into the inlet, Had 2 anchors out, one a Bruce, and one a Danforth which got bent at 30 degrees to the shaft,

Welcome Capn Brown, Thanks for your added info also,

I wouldnt call it mild either,

Cheers,
Brian,

People who are going to anchor out should have a proper mooring. Of the boats out in Boca Ciega Bay who have that, none have moved in storms.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 18:13   #238
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,961
Re: Pitch In And Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post

* * *

There is another thread going about derelict boats and irresponsible boater in Florida if you feel the desire to debate it, but please, lets keep this one free from the pointlessness of that debate and open for further updates on this specific case.

* * *

Thanks,
Steve
__________________
Exile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 22:25   #239
Senior Cruiser
 
Rocketman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 668
There has been some miss information put out about Jay's boat. First off I am not defending the man at all. The boat was and still is in terrible condition. The boat was infested with cockroaches but to my knowledge did not have rats or rodents on board, it may have had flee's as the dog aperantly had them. Secondly the boat had dog poop everywhere on deck but statements made about Jay's disposal of waste I feel may be misleading unless someone witnessed said activity. He had a port a potty on board that appeared to be working. Non of the heads were operational. I have no idea how he got rid of his waste. I think it is irresponsible to assume he disposed of it improperly unless someone has knowledge otherwise. Also, Jay's boat was not the only boat grounded by the storm, his was the only one that washed up on a public beach. People on this thread that did not see his boat first hand or help with the removal need to be careful about judging IMHO.
__________________
Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2012, 22:50   #240
Registered User
 
Nemo55's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Punta Banda, Ensenada. and Canada
Boat: 28Ft Piver Encore, Tri-Maran, Anchored in San Diego.
Posts: 728
Send a message via Skype™ to Nemo55
Re: Pitch In And Help

I wonder how that Family of five are doing, Marooned and holed on the west coast of the Baja.
__________________

__________________
"The Truth Shall set you Free....But First it will Piss You Off"

http://nemo1955.blogspot.ca/
Nemo55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.