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Old 26-02-2013, 15:45   #16
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It doesn't matter how much you want to change it because it won't, It's pan-pan, it's always been pan-pan, will always stay pan-pan and the USCG is just wrong with their pon-pon. It is International regulation and can't be different for the US or anyone else. :
You are dead right, Jedi. However the channel marker colours are international except for one small part of the world that REVERSES it to red right returning. (and then, oh so funny, calls it International B ) The metric system is international except for Mayanmar and the USA. If they want to change the international standard of emergency pronunciation to something different, there is plenty of precedent to justify it in their own heads. The rest of the world just shake their heads in amazement.
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Old 26-02-2013, 15:45   #17
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Well, your wikipedia link says that it's pronounced with an a as in father or bra, which is the same as Pon Pon to my ears.

Or at least, I assume this is a thread about how to pronounce it and not how to spell it. Spelling is obviously Pan Pan. I was taught the pronounciation is Pon Pon, but I've only ever heard Pan Pan on the VHF.
Since when is the "a" in farther or bra both of which are sharp "a"s. bra being a truncation of another French word , the " a" is certainly not close to an "o"

Its PAN , like frying pan , just accept that your European masters know better !!!

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Old 26-02-2013, 15:47   #18
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

Interesting tidbit: in Naval Aviation (and aviation more broadly) it has become became common wisdom that "Pan Pan" is not very useful. It's sort of like reefing when the wind picks up. By the time you overcome your natural hesitation and decide that it's time to confess your predicament on the radio, it's probably more serious than you originally thought. Ie, it's probably a "Mayday" situation. On the other hand, if your situation isn't that serious, the rest of the world really doesn't want to hear about it, and a "Pan Pan" doesn't buy you much, anyway.

I realize the maritime world's a little different, and some cases warrant a Pan Pan, but there's still some merit to this thinking.
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Old 26-02-2013, 15:52   #19
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Interesting tidbit: in Naval Aviation (and aviation more broadly) it has become became common wisdom that "Pan Pan" is not very useful. It's sort of like reefing when the wind picks up. By the time you overcome your natural hesitation and decide that it's time to confess your predicament on the radio, it's probably more serious than you originally thought. Ie, it's probably a "Mayday" situation. On the other hand, if your situation isn't that serious, the rest of the world really doesn't want to hear about it, and a "Pan Pan" doesn't buy you much, anyway.

I realize the maritime world's a little different, and some cases warrant a Pan Pan, but there's still some merit to this thinking.
Yes but in aviation , stoping means crashing , hence you tend to have a little issue or deep brown stuff issues.

Whereas on the sea things are a little more progressive , hence PAN PAN is a very useful call and one that is heard in my neck of the woods far more then mayday

Of course with dsc I now often just call the nearest coastguard radio station on their working channel and relate my issues rather then declaring a pan pan

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Old 26-02-2013, 15:53   #20
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
Well, your wikipedia link says that it's pronounced with an a as in father or bra, which is the same as Pon Pon to my ears.

Or at least, I assume this is a thread about how to pronounce it and not how to spell it. Spelling is obviously Pan Pan. I was taught the pronounciation is Pon Pon, but I've only ever heard Pan Pan on the VHF.
It wasn't very clear that we were only talking pronounciation.

I didn't spot that wiki reference - but I agree! - it's pronounced like an a .

It is quite possible I guess that we are in fact pronouncing things the same way - just no idea why Pan (as in frying pan - ryhmes with can ) could be phoenetically spelt as Pon (Pond - but without the d ).......but another thing that is a mystery to me won't be outta place .
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Old 26-02-2013, 15:59   #21
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It wasn't very clear that we were only talking pronounciation.

I didn't spot that wiki reference - but I agree! - it's pronounced like an a .

It is quite possible I guess that we are in fact pronouncing things the same way - just no idea why Pan (as in frying pan - ryhmes with can ) could be phoenetically spelt as Pon (Pond - but without the d ).......but another thing that is a mystery to me won't be outta place .
It is rather hilarious that we're all trying to say how it should sound by quoting various words, but we're all situated around the world and pronounce different words differently...

Anyway, in my understanding, it's pronounced the way I as a Canadian would pronounce Pon Pon. This also happens to be the same vowel sound that I would use if I said the words Father or bra, matching up with Wikipedia's pronounciation.
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Old 26-02-2013, 16:00   #22
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

Mayday (emergency) (from the French: venez m'aider "come help me")
Pan Pan (urgency) (pronounced /ˈpæn ˈpæn/) (/æ/ short "a" in "bad") (from the French: panne – a breakdown)
Sécurité (what follows is important safety information) (pron.: /seɪˈkjʊərɨteɪ/)

Well over 30 years since I was trained and licenced to use a radio. We were taught PAN-PAN.
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Old 26-02-2013, 16:01   #23
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
Well, your wikipedia link says that it's pronounced with an a as in father or bra, which is the same as Pon Pon to my ears.

Or at least, I assume this is a thread about how to pronounce it and not how to spell it. Spelling is obviously Pan Pan. I was taught the pronounciation is Pon Pon, but I've only ever heard Pan Pan on the VHF.
This could get fun. How does Forecastle become fo'c'sl?
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Old 26-02-2013, 16:03   #24
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Of course with dsc I now often just call the nearest coastguard radio station on their working channel and relate my issues rather then declaring a pan pan
Exactly. Same thing in aviation.
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Old 26-02-2013, 16:06   #25
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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post

It is rather hilarious that we're all trying to say how it should sound by quoting various words, but we're all situated around the world and pronounce different words differently...

Anyway, in my understanding, it's pronounced the way I as a Canadian would pronounce Pon Pon. This also happens to be the same vowel sound that I would use if I said the words Father or bra, matching up with Wikipedia's pronounciation.
The pronunciation is not nationally specific, that's the very point , it is derived from the French pronunciation.

Next time your in Montreal( or Paris ) try asking for bread using pon!!! .

Wiki is assuming most people pronounce bra with the hard 'a' as its a truncation of brassiere. Hence pan, like frying pan.

If your saying it any other way that's fine but its not right

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Old 26-02-2013, 16:07   #26
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

Its PAN , like frying pan , just accept that your European masters know better !!!

Dave
unless you are from the NNSM (NuNited States Merica)
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Old 26-02-2013, 16:09   #27
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
It is rather hilarious that we're all trying to say how it should sound by quoting various words, but we're all situated around the world and pronounce different words differently...

Anyway, in my understanding, it's pronounced the way I as a Canadian would pronounce Pon Pon. This also happens to be the same vowel sound that I would use if I said the words Father or bra, matching up with Wikipedia's pronounciation.
So I am guessing you have no problem with pronouncing the ending of Sécurité.............ay .

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Old 26-02-2013, 16:14   #28
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unless you are from the NNSM (NuNited States Merica)
Where of course you get a VHF license on being to to demonstrate you can read and sign your name !!!!!

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Old 26-02-2013, 16:15   #29
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

Why all this discussion, it is covered by international regulation. For the "it's always been" crowd, here's the ITU's 1968 version:

Quote:
1478
(2) In radiotelephony, the urgency signal consists of three
repetitions of the word PAN pronounced as the French word
" panne ". It shall be transmitted before the call.
Source:http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-s/oth...044502PDFE.pdf

In the 2012 ITU regs it says the same thing:

Quote:
33.10
§ 4 The urgency signal consists of the words PAN PAN. In radiotelephony each
word of the group shall be pronounced as the French word “panne”.
So, between 1968 and 2012 it went from PAN PAN PAN to PAN PAN-PAN PAN-PAN PAN [edit to correct], but the pronunciation stayed the same (and is intended to be uniform around the world). If you want to hear someone's version of the correct pronunciation you can listen to it here: Google Translate

No point in arguing about Coast Guard or anybody else. Only argument is how the French word "panne" is properly pronounced.
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Old 26-02-2013, 16:21   #30
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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So, between 1968 and 2012 it went from PAN PAN PAN to PAN PAN, but the pronunciation stayed the same (and is intended to be uniform around the world).
It went from PAN repeated three times to PAN-PAN repeated three times

From Transport Canada
Example of Urgency Procedure(PAN PAN)

“PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN, St. John’s Coast Guard Radio, St. John’s Coast Guard Radio, St. John’s Coast Guard Radio, This is NONSUCH, NONSUCH, NONSUCH. MMSI 316999999, 5 miles East of Cape Bonavista, 5 Persons on Board, we have taken on water in lazarette and are presently trying to pump out excess water, Over”.
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