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Old 28-02-2013, 03:56   #136
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Not really. I feel that boaters are becoming a bit too dependent on the Coast Guard a bit too much of the time. For example, in the SF Bay I often hear vessels calling the CG to inform them of a floating log or deadhead. If you feel the situation deserves a Securite warning, why not broadcast one yourself? This is actually a better solution, because the CG broadcast might be repeated for hundreds of square miles, while a more local broadcast from a vessel in the vicinity will only pester those who are close to the hazard. I really don't need to hear about your deadhead if it's an eight-hour sail away.

A couple of weeks ago I heard an out-of-fuel powerboat call the Coast Guard to request them to contact the local towboat to come give them a tow. How ridiculous is that? The towboat operator was there listening the whole time, and finally broke into the conversation and suggested moving the it to a different channel.

My point is simple. If you feel there's a need for a Pan-Pan, don't call the coasties, broadcast the Pan-Pan. The more you're able to cut the umbilical cord with the Coast Guard, the better it is for all of us.
A good post, Bash.

I call the Canadian CG when I find a really big brahch (like 6 inches thick, 15 feet long) near or in a restricted waterway, like the channels into Toronto's Inner Harbour. The volume of boats is hundreds per day, and I feel that the warning is justified.

I broadcast a SECURITE personally when I am going through one of those same channels in full fog, as I am steel, 16 tons and do not have the radar installed. I also sound a horn and post the missus in the bow as we creep about at 2 knots.

Most of the booze cruiser/tour boats here send out a SECURITE when they are reversing off their docks, as they wouldn't necessarily see a runabout getting blended off their sterns.
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Old 28-02-2013, 04:01   #137
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

if I ever visit US waters and need to attract attention I plan on saying on the VHF:

Death to the Infidels!
Death to the President!
Death to Apple Pie!

Repeated 3 times. First in English, then in Arabic and finally in French .

The downside is that the assistance provided might not be entirely freindly .
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Old 28-02-2013, 04:10   #138
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A month ago, there was a bit of a flood in the Brisbane River. No one said anything on the VHF about logs and trees. There were just so many coming downstream, it would have clogged the airwaves. Most of us were armed with boat hooks and oars or tried to steer away from the debris. However, when a floating dock or a boat or something large, was loose and floating downstream, there would be a Securité transmitted to everyone by one of the upstream yachties. Nothing to do with the authorities, no pan pan, just a quick heads up from one mariner to the rest.
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Old 28-02-2013, 04:23   #139
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

While it is interesting to see the amount of conjecture about the pronounciation of these words in this thread, there is only one definitive source for the use of emergency signals in radiotelephony - the ITU (International Telecommunications Union). In the main document, the RADIO REGULATIONS, the correct use of distress and urgency signals is clearly described. In Chapter IX, Paragraphs 1478 it is defined that:

Quote:

1478
(2) In radiotelephony, the urgency signal consists of three
repetitions of the word PAN pronounced as the French word

" panne ". It shall be transmitted before the call.


National descriptions of emergency signals do not supersede this ITU rule, they are meant to clarify these rules and if a discrepancy occurs, the national rule is incorrect.
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Old 28-02-2013, 04:33   #140
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
112 (113 now) posts on how to pronounce a 3 letter word. Only on cruisersforum!
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Old 28-02-2013, 04:36   #141
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

So--the first letter of the universal phonetic olphobet is pronounced OLPHA
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Old 28-02-2013, 04:50   #142
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

speaking spanish rather thouroughly and being a avid sailor for years i must interject it is clearly pon pon. Not having the need to ever need the call i doubt it is for lack of bread rations. Keep sailing true north!
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Old 28-02-2013, 05:15   #143
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
if I ever visit US waters and need to attract attention I plan on saying on the VHF:

Death to the Infidels!
Death to the President!
Death to Apple Pie!

Repeated 3 times. First in English, then in Arabic and finally in French .

The downside is that the assistance provided might not be entirely freindly .
That's a good plan, you'll get to meet some people that way.
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Old 28-02-2013, 05:17   #144
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Quote:
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speaking spanish rather thouroughly and being a avid sailor for years i must interject it is clearly pon pon. Not having the need to ever need the call i doubt it is for lack of bread rations. Keep sailing true north!
¡No tiene nada que ver con el castellano! La pronunciación internacional obligatoria siga la pronunciación francésa. FRANCESA.

Bueno, en todas partes menos los EEUU.... porque ellos no forman una parte de la comunidad internacional, según ellos. Un caso especial. Son bien especiales.

Panne (francés) = pana (castellano) = breakdown (inglés)

Nothing to do with bread.
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Old 28-02-2013, 22:21   #145
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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I am not saying that CG would rush to the rescue ... but certainly they would inquire about nature of the trouble and assist however appropriate ... perhaps by issuing a SECURITE call to all in the example below. It all depends on what would be said after "...".

"Coast guard, coast guard, i'm in trouble ... I am pleasure craft ... my position is ... my engines are out and I am drifting in the middle of a shipping channel. I am single handed. Please advise other vessels in the vicinity as I am trying to get control back."

Happy now ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Not really. I feel that boaters are becoming a bit too dependent on the Coast Guard a bit too much of the time. For example, in the SF Bay I often hear vessels calling the CG to inform them of a floating log or deadhead. If you feel the situation deserves a Securite warning, why not broadcast one yourself? This is actually a better solution, because the CG broadcast might be repeated for hundreds of square miles, while a more local broadcast from a vessel in the vicinity will only pester those who are close to the hazard. I really don't need to hear about your deadhead if it's an eight-hour sail away. ...
Sorry this is not the scenario that was projected. It was not a dead log in the water ...

It was a live human on a disabled boat in the middle of a narrow shipping channel on Saint Lawrence Seaway (SLS) where ocean going freighters, tankers, and Lakers can sail in numbers in convoy formation only a few miles apart with line of visibility being often much shorter than that. One might have only minutes to move out of the channel or become a nautical roadkill.

See the visual below … there is no room for that ship to make any maneuvers without going ashore or into opposing line of traffic.



CG not only can reach the ship which pleasure craft antenna might not be reaching, but they can also contact SLS management and slow down or stop the entire convoy if they deem it to be necessary for general safety, and/or fleet safety. It's THEIR call ... not a stranded boater's judgement call.

Who cares that some other boaters/sailors might be overexposed to too many calls ... as long as the safety is at stake that matters the most. Hope this addresses your concern.

How not to become a nautical roadkill?

"Anytime mariners feel they may be in a dangerous situation, we highly recommend they immediately contact the Coast Guard to make us aware of the problem regardless of how severe it may appear," said Cmdr. Mike Kendall, 17th Coast Guard District Chief of Search and Rescue.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:03   #146
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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--and you thought that DNA was the smallest thing we could discuss That'll learn ya.
I guess it "dependson what you definition of IS is". To quote somebody relatively well-known. That is a two letter word we can discuss
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:22   #147
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Sorry Wotname but that’s not correct, a PAN PAN can be transmitted as an “all stations” as well as to a “specific station”, as per the international reg’s to which Australia is a signatory to...
Yes Island Hopper is correct and Wot is wrong (nothing surprising there ). I went back to the AMC Marine Radio Handbook to see where I went wrong.

I was confusing the MAYDAY with PAN PAN in so far that MAYDAY does not require to be addressed to any station (of any type) although presumably it could be so addressed.

In doing so, I noted sometime which I had missed years ago (or forgot ). If a PAN PAN is addressed to "All Stations", then the originating station must cancel the message when action is no longer necessary.

Pretty sure I never knew that . Para 137.6 of section 26 of the above book.

Thanks IH, for picking up my blunder and I now know another new thing
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:52   #148
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Re: PAN PAN....OR PON PON

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Yes Island Hopper is correct and Wot is wrong (nothing surprising there ). I went back to the AMC Marine Radio Handbook to see where I went wrong.

I was confusing the MAYDAY with PAN PAN in so far that MAYDAY does not require to be addressed to any station (of any type) although presumably it could be so addressed.

In doing so, I noted sometime which I had missed years ago (or forgot ). If a PAN PAN is addressed to "All Stations", then the originating station must cancel the message when action is no longer necessary.

Pretty sure I never knew that . Para 137.6 of section 26 of the above book.

Thanks IH, for picking up my blunder and I now know another new thing
Nah...I’m pretty sure you knew it but with the ever increasing regulations (and age ) it just slipped away....

Trust me if i didn't have a bridge library i would be stuffed, it's impossible to remember everything......especially with the never ending amendments...

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Old 01-03-2013, 15:23   #149
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It is NOT the purpose of a Pan-Pan transmission to summon the Coast Guard, even though this may sometimes be an end result. A Pan-Pan can be used to alert other vessels to urgent situations that may not require CG intervention in any way. Example: you lose engine power in a busy strait in poor visibility, and want to alert other vessels as to your position while you effect repairs.

The longer this thread runs, the more apparent it becomes that how to pronounce the words is the least of our problems. It seems that a significant number of mariners have no idea when a Pan-Pan transmission is appropriate.

The line of thinking that Mayday, Pan-Pan and Securite transmissions should all directed toward summoning the Coast Guard is unfortunate, because these transmissions are a way of soliciting a response from all mariners in the area. If all you're trying to do is call out the coasties, then just call the coasties.
Under GMDSS the primary recipient of distress alerts are the MRCC ( via a CG radio station). Under the old SOLAS convention distress alerts where handled by adjacent ships. GMDSS changed that to shore based coordination. Which is why the sea, areas and appropriate compulsory carraige requirements were brought in
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Old 01-03-2013, 15:25   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post

Not really. I feel that boaters are becoming a bit too dependent on the Coast Guard a bit too much of the time. For example, in the SF Bay I often hear vessels calling the CG to inform them of a floating log or deadhead. If you feel the situation deserves a Securite warning, why not broadcast one yourself? This is actually a better solution, because the CG broadcast might be repeated for hundreds of square miles, while a more local broadcast from a vessel in the vicinity will only pester those who are close to the hazard. I really don't need to hear about your deadhead if it's an eight-hour sail away.

A couple of weeks ago I heard an out-of-fuel powerboat call the Coast Guard to request them to contact the local towboat to come give them a tow. How ridiculous is that? The towboat operator was there listening the whole time, and finally broke into the conversation and suggested moving the it to a different channel.

My point is simple. If you feel there's a need for a Pan-Pan, don't call the coasties, broadcast the Pan-Pan. The more you're able to cut the umbilical cord with the Coast Guard, the better it is for all of us.
Again that's not what GMDSS says should happen. The shore station is the primary destination of distress , urgency and safety calls.

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