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Old 26-10-2011, 10:48   #16
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

[QUOTE=Bruce626;804264
"If they kill the hostages they lose any bargaining power they have." ==> Perhaps, but I believe that there have been recent instances where pirates have killed hostages despite the loss of bargaining power. In any event. this is not an academic discussion for me as I will be cruising in the Philippines where foreigners are not allowed to have firearms (or even air guns).[/QUOTE]

I would call that incident a fail on the part of the negotiators, not the pirates. The pirates were in process of negotiation when the shooting began. The first words out of my mouth would have been if ANY hostage is shot ALL of you will be summarily executed.

The fact that any of the pirates in that situation are still alive, puts all future hostages in additional danger, as there is no deterrant to killing hostages.

As far as the Phillipines they still have a lot of work to do to get the level of organization that a western country has, but the piracy is mostly in the areas of islamic extremists. You can always hire a Phillipino national with a gun permit as a body guard.
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Old 26-10-2011, 11:07   #17
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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Oh, there have NEVER EVER been pirates who were English or French or ..............

And they operated out of lawless parts of the world. There are people the world over that would be pirates in lawless area, if the locals didn't beat them to it. Right now that lawless area is Somalia. A lot of the pirates don't come from Somalia.

Did the whole of the Med and the Bay of Biscay become pirate ridden after WWII? SE Asia has a problem but the local governments are trying to reduce that. That there is no law in Somalia is the reason there are pirates there. There is no law because the Somalis threw them out. Unless the Somalis regain the power of their country there will be no law. They cannot regain the power if the pirates are allowed to thrive. QED

The only part of the equation the foreign governments can affect is on the high seas. To be politically correct these governments are not "allowed" to interfere with internal politics (I know they do but we're talking theory here.) Therefore the only way to help the Somalis is to make piracy unprofitable. Unfortunately the only way to do that is to invade the pirate ports. Not unheard of, shores of Tripoli and all. But that is not P.C. even if it will help the people of Somalia.
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Old 26-10-2011, 11:48   #18
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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SE Asia has a problem but the local governments are trying to reduce that. That there is no law in Somalia is the reason there are pirates there. There is no law because the Somalis threw them out. Unless the Somalis regain the power of their country there will be no law.
If I recall right it was somebody else throwing Somali governments out.. last one was somewhat sharia oriented thou but anyway was chopping some pirate hands..
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Old 26-10-2011, 19:48   #19
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

"Bruce - a personal request: could you please tone down the weaponry discussions?" ==> OK Jon, I take your point and will make an effort to comply with your request. I have always been too absorbed in technical detail although it was a good trait when I was programming - this failure is often pointed out to me by others in 'social' situations, but sometimes I just cannot stop. Have a good day.
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Old 26-10-2011, 20:32   #20
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

When we cruised/motored up the Red Sea, an Alaskan boat in the fleet reportedly carried hand grenades to lob at pirates. While admiring their grit, I didn't want to be anywhere near them! Jon is absolutely right about carrying weapons in foreign ports. It is illegal, you have to declare them upon arrival and you may not get them back.

This guy, Sun Zu around 2,600 years ago said, "It is best to win without fighting." I take that to mean AVOID PIRATE AREAS. It is a big, mostly blue world out there and you need to stay alive a long time to see it.

Enjoy.

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Old 26-10-2011, 20:56   #21
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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If I recall right it was somebody else throwing Somali governments out.. last one was somewhat sharia oriented thou but anyway was chopping some pirate hands..
I still stand by my answer:
Quote:
Unless the Somalis regain the power of their country there will be no law.
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Old 26-10-2011, 21:00   #22
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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So there is a relatively inexpensive system, usable by minimally trained commercial crew, which could be rapidly retrofitted to most commercial craft. Once commercial ships were able to protect themselves, much of the money would fall out of the piracy enterprise and the then, being unprofitable, the piracy problem would likely fade away as it has done several times over the last several hundred years. Not optimum perhaps but doable if international law could be modified to allow it to happen.
How about a blunderbuss? do the same thing, a lot less complicated.
(sorry mods, I had to)
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Old 26-10-2011, 23:46   #23
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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... I take that to mean AVOID PIRATE AREAS...
Hi Dhillen, & Welcome to Cruisers Forum! Yours is a very popular point of view - invariably taken by folks who are a comfortably long way from any pirates.

If you're in someplace like Malaysia/Thailand (& ~150 cruising boats arrive here every year) then you get a different perspective. There aren't many options. Very few boats attempt to go back to Aus (a nasty trip most of the time) & even fewer go back across the N Pacific (how many cruisers do you see coming through HK?) Many are spending more seasons here, & many boats here are now for sale.

But one thing I've noticed by studying the Piracy Tracking Maps is that the pirates leave the Seychelles/Madagascar area from the end of May until about September, because it's too rough for their attack boats - but not for us cruisers. It gives us about a 2.5 month window to sneak around the top of Madagascar so we can then work our way down around the Cape of Good Hope (assuming BIOT lets us stay in Chagos for long enough).

So it's also possible to go WHEN they're not there, to avoid pirate areas in TIME instead of space. A good way to win without fighting
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:59   #24
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

When I talk to people about cruising the world the question "What about pirates" is the first thing asked......
After doing a bit of research, visiting the pirate map and the USA's government travel warning sites it seams there are violent acts against tourists the world over. In Vancouver BC we have what the media have been calling "An epidemic of violence" A fight over who controls the drugs. Hey guys, I live here. Do I ever think about my personal safety, NO
I do not know how to say this sooo I will say it as plainly as possible and let the mods decide if its appropriate to CF.
I am asking for very reliable or first hand knowledge of reported pirate areas of the world FOR cruisers?
And how many incidents have there been in that area. And how many cruisers pass through each year?
For example: the sea of cortes was on the USA government travel warning site after a Canadian boater was attacked and had his throat cut a few years back. After spending 18 months sailing this area and having close friends who have sailed this area for years I suggest that this was an isolated incident and the area is not "a place to be careful" Hundreds of cruising yachts pass through this area each year and one incident is reported that I know of ???
On the other hand Somalia............. a bad place to be !
So I ask,
1- Where are the pirate hot spots in the world FOR cruisers?

Soooo here goes,

The Philippines; A family friend who I have known from age 2 does anti-terrorism work in the southern Philippines. Its his full time job and he has been there for 4 years.This guy is in the hot seat. Having heard stories from this area I asked him
last Thanksgiving dinner 'Whats going on" He said the northern half of the country is safe. When travelling the Island of Mindanao be very aware and do not go near the Sulu archipelago. He can not go there even with a military escort. ( Kidnapping )

My nabour in the marina who is rebuilding a 53 ft steel boat was married to a Philippino and lived on Mindanao Island for 2 years. His sister and husband came to visit and while shopping in a store the store was robbed and the sister and husband were shot, the sister did not survive.

I do not mean to whack the bee hive or be alarmist but would appr some feed back from cruisers currently sailing in the Philippines.

Anybody sailing Indonesia.?
Singapore?
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:59   #25
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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1- Where are the pirate hot spots in the world FOR cruisers?...I do not mean to whack the bee hive or be alarmist but would appreciate some feed back from cruisers currently sailing in the Philippines. Anybody sailing Indonesia? Singapore?
Yeah, you've probably whacked the bee hive, but I'll play along. Thanks for the info on the Philippines - we may head there next year.

Haven't heard of any incidents in Singapore. Their patrol boats are VERY active, so I wouldn't expect any problems except high marina prices.

Indonesia has been pretty safe except for the Malacca Straits side of Sumatra, & even there they seem to be going after ships, not yachts. Still, cruisers transiting the Malacca Straits do so on the Malaysian side, as their navy cleaned it up some years ago.

There was an unfortunate incident in the Butangs (western border of Malaysia & Thailand) some years ago but it turned out to be 3 Myanmar kids who'd been "sold" to a fishing boat & just wanted off. So they swam to a cruising boat, killed the owner, & tried to sail away. This appears to be a very unfortunate but isolated incident.

I've heard that parts of Venezuela are a problem, but we're on the other side of the world (Thailand) so don't have good info.

OTOH, the S Pacific was so crime-free that locking your dinghy in Tonga was considered an insult to the dock owner, & most drivers left their keys in the ignition.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:19   #26
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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Originally Posted by Jon Hacking View Post
Hi Dhillen, & Welcome to Cruisers Forum! Yours is a very popular point of view - invariably taken by folks who are a comfortably long way from any pirates.

If you're in someplace like Malaysia/Thailand (& ~150 cruising boats arrive here every year) then you get a different perspective. There aren't many options. Very few boats attempt to go back to Aus (a nasty trip most of the time) & even fewer go back across the N Pacific (how many cruisers do you see coming through HK?) Many are spending more seasons here, & many boats here are now for sale.

But one thing I've noticed by studying the Piracy Tracking Maps is that the pirates leave the Seychelles/Madagascar area from the end of May until about September, because it's too rough for their attack boats - but not for us cruisers. It gives us about a 2.5 month window to sneak around the top of Madagascar so we can then work our way down around the Cape of Good Hope (assuming BIOT lets us stay in Chagos for long enough).

So it's also possible to go WHEN they're not there, to avoid pirate areas in TIME instead of space. A good way to win without fighting
I hate the sneak around part..why not do what Bruce626 advocated? its almost like they (western govs) want to keep folks from that area... it is a very stratigic geo...hum...
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Old 06-11-2011, 13:24   #27
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

Thanks for the info Jon, just trying to get some perspective on things.

The sail boat Namotos has returned from a 12 year circ and spent a season in Venezuala. He's a capable, stable guy and his stories are a cruisers bad dream. Saying 5 boats were robed in his bay while the owners were on them, that you locked your boat up at night and if somebody, always a group, boards let them take the dingy. He was not impressed.
He also said this was the only place they ran into trouble with the locals........ in 12 years. Thats perspective.
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Old 06-11-2011, 18:54   #28
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

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I hate the sneak around part...
Yeah, I don't either but you have to be pragmatic here. I'll be taking special precautions like no running lights, more attentive watches, no AIS xmitter, etc for much of the Indian Ocean. I'll also contact the authorities as I think they'll give me some reconnaissance info (especially if I can get a group together).
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Old 08-11-2011, 20:00   #29
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Re: NY Times Article About Piracy

Currently I am in Tombobo Bay and there are around fifty cruising boats here. While one needs to be aware of minor theft like any place else, there is no great concern by the people here of pirates - this despite a large population of poor commercial fishermen around. While there are few cruising congregations here - Tombobo Bay, Pureto Galera, Subic Bay, Cebu (both the Yacht Club and the Porter Marina), and Carmen - no one has seemed concerned about violent piracy in these areas I have visited. Nor is this a topic of alarm in the many cities that I have visited, including some on Mindinao (Surigao, Shargao, Cagayan de Oro, and Dipolog). I have also been in Davao where there are cruising facilities (but not with a boat) and there was no mention of local problems there either. My builder delivers boats to Australia and sails further south than I am prepared to go and while he uses a measure of caution, he typically has no problems that I am aware of.

My prospective cruising area is the central Philippines - from the southern coast of Luzon to the northern coast of Mindanao; and from the Surigao Strait to the west coast of Palawan. I have no experience with the Sulu Sea and southern Mindanao and so cannot comment, but given the history I would suggest some modicum of caution.
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