Newbie to this forum

[Olddawgsrule]

HF, I agree and appreciate the input.
No there is not a simple answer that fits all.

What everyone is saying is added to what I believe I will do.
I have to decide the how and why's to fit my needs.

With 'All' your input, a plan is forming. Once set, My wife and I will go and charter a trip. We'll then have first hand knowledge of what we believe vs. reality.

I truly appreciate 'everyone's' input.

[TrentePieds]

HF hangs out in waters quite different from mine. If I'm not mistaken, he hangs out with the ghost of Cap'n Morgan:-) HF's annoyances must be skinny water and hard blows. Mine are water too deep to anchor in, the incessant rains and the flat calms of August afternoons. So he and I have different desiderata in many respects, but in many other respects, our desiderata must necessarily be similar.


And since you asked for more, and bear in mind that my comments are just meant as illustration of one man's circumstances and for possible guidance, and bear in mind that they reflect the dictum "to thine own self be true": I detest boughten bread. I detest restaurants. I detest bars. In consequence, our galley has to accommodate the making of bread, and that dictates a certain minimum counter space since in a thirty-footer on the hook it is not really feasible to run a shore-side MixMaster three times a week. In consequence I need a cooker with oven. Ideally a Dickinson diesel burner that would also heat the cabin, but I'm getting along fine, for now, with a garden variety propane fueled three burner w/oven. That has ramifications in regard to propane bottle positioning and securing pursuant to regulations. It reduces stowage space in the cockpit that would be useful for other purposes. Detesting restaurants and bars has ramifications in regard to entertaining since none of us likes to be lonely :-). The navigator's table that serves also as the dinette table must now serve also as a bar. And for entertaining on the back porch - that steering wheel HAS to go! As for the wine, hm.... Tuff to do ab initio in a thirty-footer. Excellent pretext for keeping the shore-side base since I have about 25 gallons in production at any given time. That's 120 bottles at 3 buxathrow. Call the savings over store-bought Chateau Plonk Can$17/bottle or 2 grand every four months, given that each day a bottle goes where Dionysos means it to go. Now, isn't it amazing that that savings is actually equal to the occupation cost of the two shore-side bases we maintain ;-)?



Perhaps the above doesn't seem directly related to cruising. But it is. My purpose is simply to demonstrate that when considering the seafaring life, no detail is too small to merit consideration, and to demonstrate how the shin-bone connects to the knee-bone in surprising ways not always immediately obvious to the novice :-) And to reiterate that what suits John Doe (the production yard's target market) may not suit Joe Bloggins at all. Let alone



TrentePieds

[Pelagic]

Your priorities dictate your costs.

Jim and Ann actively cruise so must keep all their expensive marine equipment in good working order.

When they sit for a while, latent wear and tear problems from last voyage, raise their ugly heads and they don't compromise on getting it fixed.

A marina dweller can simply put it on the list.

[Hudson Force]

The "active cruising" is a factor. Although we regularly return to the St. Johns River in North Florida, we have often spent ten months of the year far from any potential home base.

I'm also a "cheap date". I don't detest restaurants, bars, bread, canned foods or boxed wines.

I think TrentePieds is right, cruisers do not all have the same needs.

[Tingum]

If you are planning on spend summers in the NE and winters somewhere warm the cheapest way is to forget the boat. Home rentals outside the US are cheap. If you still have the boat bug, rent one or buy a small day sailer.

[Olddawgsrule]

Originally Posted by Tingum

If you are planning on spend summers in the NE and winters somewhere warm the cheapest way is to forget the boat. Home rentals outside the US are cheap. If you still have the boat bug, rent one or buy a small day sailer.

That is an option we're considering. Since we wouldn't be full time live-a-boards.

[TrentePieds]

Absolutely! Two return plane tickets to almost anywhere in the world is bound to be cheaper than outfitting a boat to go blue water and then taking her in Cap'n Morgan's or Cap'n Bligh's wake.

As you already know, I'm a tad out of step with many on CF. It has to do with being of advanced age, with being far from rich, with being already located in one of the best cruising grounds in the world (if you have no particular hankering for sandy beaches and coconuts), with "catching the wave" of increasing real estate prices where we are, with being able to support the cruising life style on rental income if we so choose, with MyBeloved being a good deal younger than I yet just retired, with MB never having set foot in any kind of boat till about three years ago and therefore still being a victim of romantic notions about "living aboard".

Had an interesting chat with her sister a day or two ago. SIL absolutely insisted that I am the one dragging MB off to sea rather against her will. Just "conventional wisdom" kicking in. The facts are quite the other way about, but SIL is apparently not ready to accept that.

Now, MB spent thirty years as an "Early Childhood Educator", which means that she spent thirty years wiping the bottoms of other people's babies. It's an absolute joy watching MB with infants and toddlers. I am far from starry-eyed, but I cannot conceive that anyone could be better at it. "I've paid my dues". sez MB. "Now it's my turn!"

I have told the story, before you came here, how TrentePieds came to us, essentially over my standard warning to those innocent of knowledge of seafaring and boat ownership that "you don't want a boat!". Well - MB did want a boat, she said, and rather forced the issue. You will find plenty of comments in old posts on this forum about one spouse wanting a boat and the other not. Generally it is "he, yes/she, no". In our case it's t'other way about.

I have enuff miles under my keel that I can bring MB from lubber to competent coastwise yot skipper in the time I estimate remains to me. It soon became obvious that MB is resistant to the authority structure and to the standard orders/responses style of communication that must needs exist aboard ship. So essentially, I single-hand. And wonder of wonders, because I don't "push it" MB is picking it all up by observation and quiet cogitation. Hey - I can adapt my teaching style. WE are doing this for HER :-)!

Had we not been in a position to buy BOTH property and a (cheap but adequate) boat, both for cash, I might well have become "difficult" :-).

So my council - FWIW - is "proceed with all deliberate speed", make sure you have an "escape route", and that both of you are very, very clear about what the necessary personal compromises and financial trade-offs are.

TrentePieds

[JPA Cate]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^



Dynamite post, Trente Pieds!, especially about both of them being really clear about the compromises and financial trade-offs. Keeping communications open and ongoing will make or break the deal.

Ann

[TrentePieds]

Thanx Ann - and Jim. I musta learned something from you two ;-0)!

TrentePieds

[Olddawgsrule]

Again, well said.

This is an endeavor 'we' are looking at. I've run her on a Day Sailor (owned for two years) and 'she' was the one asking "Are we going out today?". Ran her on a J24 put the boat in a great reach. At first nervous then she started to smile and move around. I needed to know how she'd re-act. Then I gave her the helm. "But I don't know what I'm doing?" "Just what you did in the Day Sailor, only easier!" Yes, took a few, but that smile came!
Then she started telling me what she need for me to do.
That brought 'my smile'.

This is not something that will 'fully' happen this season. We will fly down, check out the area and 'see' what we see.
Does the 'hype' fit the reality.

I do so enjoy everyone coming aboard (heh, heh) my journey into the next stage of life.
No comment is not read and thought about.

Again, thank you all!

[Olddawgsrule]

Originally Posted by Tingum

If you are planning on spend summers in the NE and winters somewhere warm the cheapest way is to forget the boat. Home rentals outside the US are cheap. If you still have the boat bug, rent one or buy a small day sailer.

We actually pretty excited to travel down and look around. I found a nice 3 bedroom for sale listed at 60k and walking distance to the Ferry Lines.
With that being list, who knows what the real buy would be at. 'We' need to go down and walk around a bit.

I also found an inexpensive stay on a 34ft Beneteau that is only a stay, not a sail, but... would give us a great feel for Marina and boat stay.
I see that as a good chance to learn and decide.
I am going to contact him about doing a charter.
2-3 days at dock, then a run..
Or a run, and 2-3 days at dock..

Yes, I am considering options.

[TrentePieds]

Good stuff, Dawg :-) That's the way to make the transition a happy one.

We come out into the open strait with MB on the helm and she leans into the rising wind and goes "Whoo-hooo! Is this sea state 5 yet? Is it? Is it?"

It's all about building confidence :-) !

TrentePieds

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Good stuff, Dawg :-) That's the way to make the transition a happy one.

We come out into the open strait with MB on the helm and she leans into the rising wind and goes "Whoo-hooo! Is this sea state 5 yet? Is it? Is it?"

It's all about building confidence :-) !

TrentePieds

Your post reminded me of this photo of a "Whoo-hooo!" exclaimation from Nancie at the helm...



I can't remember the moment. Obviously it's calm,- 'maybe sighting our landfall, 'maybe a whale ..... all I remember is Nancie's expression of joy at the helm. These are valuable events!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Welcome aboard CF, olddawgsrule,

Here are some ideas for you to consider:

1) Although you may feel that buying a boat to liveaboard and sail around is like buying an SUV, it isn't. Cars seem to hold up pretty well when ignored. Boats take offense: they don't like sitting unused, and deterioration occurs. Writing the concept in those words feels strange, but the reality is that boats have stuff go wrong with them while they're just "sitting". You depend on the boat to keep the water on the outside, to keep you safe.

2) Unless you are mechanically inclined and happy to tackle maintenance yourself, you will be out of pocket relying on often unreliable and sometimes unscrupulous people to do the work for you, at on the order of $100 US/hr., in addition to the mooring and storage and launch/lift charges from the marina. Furthermore, as you age, you become less able to do some of the work, and will find yourself paying out more for help with jobs.

I am presently 76 yrs. old, and in fairly good nick for a woman of my age, and a full time cruiser, still. I am noticing more and more that I am thinking in terms of hiring out work I would happily have done 10 years ago. Be warned. * It* has been sneaking up on me.

Ann

I think Ann hit the nail on the head. If you can do your own maintenance, then it's very doable. If you cant, have a big pocket book and don't expect it to be as easy as finding someone. Rarely have I been satisfied with work hired out. Once you have done it yourself for years and know what to ask and watch for it's easier though.
Generally I think living aboard is much cheaper than on real estate, but the devil is in the details of what you have and what you want.

[jkindredpdx]

I ran the numbers, even assigned the ROI calculation to my Business School class. Naturally the costs are heavily weighted by size and age of the boat. My choice was to purchase a rather modestly priced ~$50k older boat which had been well maintained. My opinion is that nearly any used boat will want a navigation and electronics upgrade, so it doesn't matter if the boat is 7 yrs old or 30. I also calculated that I could lose the whole $50k investment without being destitute and I could upgrade when appropriate.

My living expenses went down considerably... $1500/mo apartment rent vs $300 for moorage. I've been lucky, and few major repairs have been required. Getting a boat that had attentive POs and a good survey reduces risk. I passed my break even point, so my boat is free from here on out. BTW my 35' sailboat would be too small if my partner lived aboard with me full time.