Newbie questions, crossing the Atlantic

[2big2small]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

how far away from US land would i need to stay to avoid going through customs if i sailed from nova scotia to the Caribbean, i cant enter the US at this point in time.

As long as you don’t dock or drop the anchor in US territorial waters you can sail through.

[Benz]

You say you're tired of living on land but have never lived on the water. What if you get neck deep in onboard life only to realize you can't stand that either? Ocean crossings aren't for everyone, and living on a sailboat, even close to shore (or attached to it at a marina) has a lot of inconveniences. It's like saying, "I can't stand trucking any more, I'm going to be a pilot....I wonder what an airplane looks like?"
If you buy a boat in NS, you have right there some amazing cruising grounds, and even better ones are just north, in Newfoundland. Cruise around there for a while, and if you can stand it, you'll be able to make a better plan.
Just don't sell the truck to put a down payment on the airplane before you know whether you're afraid of heights.

[Skywalker204]

Originally Posted by Benz

You say you're tired of living on land but have never lived on the water. What if you get neck deep in onboard life only to realize you can't stand that either? Ocean crossings aren't for everyone, and living on a sailboat, even close to shore (or attached to it at a marina) has a lot of inconveniences. It's like saying, "I can't stand trucking any more, I'm going to be a pilot....I wonder what an airplane looks like?"
If you buy a boat in NS, you have right there some amazing cruising grounds, and even better ones are just north, in Newfoundland. Cruise around there for a while, and if you can stand it, you'll be able to make a better plan.
Just don't sell the truck to put a down payment on the airplane before you know whether you're afraid of heights.

Would you say newfoundland is the best cruising grounds in canada? You make a valid point about just jumping into it, but i will be living aboard a ship in august doing my 101 and 103 for 5 days so that should give me a pretty good idea. The main reason i want to do ot is for adventure and to get away, its always kinda been a dream of mine and im always looking for a new more challenging adventure.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

Thank you Gordmay,
I wont be making it my first or second cruise by the looks of it but i will do it at some point in my life, im just glad theres knowledgeable people that are willing to help me reach my goals and im not having to find out the hard way.

One of the questions that just came to mind is how far away from US land would i need to stay to avoid going through customs if i sailed from nova scotia to the Caribbean, i cant enter the US at this point in time.

How serious is the limitation? You don't have to give us your legal background but real risky if its a situation where they are likely to lock you up if they catch you. Bad weather or a break down even if a few hundred miles off shore could force you to head to the USA for safety reasons and once there you are subject to their jurisdiction.

Technically as long as you don't touch shore or drop anchor you are OK but technicalities don't always cut it. If you are hugging the coast for hundreds of miles they may decide you must have anchored at some point or intended to anchor. You may be in the right but that doesn't always work.

[calin1967]

Have you thought about buying a 20-30 year old 27-29 footer in Mediteranean and sail it around for 1-2 years? If you find a well mantained one, it might depreciate very little in 2 years and after that period you will know better what kind of boat is for you.

[TrentePieds]

Skywalker:

Since you are in Vancouver, you would get yourself off to a splendid start if you went to Cooper Yachts/Jibset Sailing School and signed up for one of their "Cruise and Learn"s. Many, many years ago I used to skipper/instruct C&L for the Jibset. I have no connection with them now, but I can assure you that a C&L in these waters - Salish Sea, Gulf Islands, Broughton Archipelago, etc. - is a wonderful experience just for the cruising, and with a good instructor - which Jibset has aplenty - you will come back ready to handle a modern cruising boat in the 36 - 40 foot range. and to navigate coastwise.


Jibset is on Granville Island. Look them up on line.


Once you've done a week or two in a well found boat, you'll begin to have some inkling as to what you will need/want in your own. When you go looking for a boat, don't "fall between chairs"! Either spend a LOT of money on a boat that is ready to go RTW and be prepared to spend a LOT more to maintain her as well as to take a major hit on depreciation. Or go the other way: Spend only a LITTLE money on the purchase, be prepared to spend a LOT of money of upgrading and maintaining her, and save a LOT of money on not having to take the depreciation hit! With a budget of 70K - which is really quite scant for what you are intending to do - I would, if I were you, choose the latter option.


From what we can know of you on the basis of your few posts, I would think that you are quite some time - learning time - away from being able to implement you dream in a sensible manner. That isn't meant to be unkind. On the contrary! Why don't you hang in here, follow our discussiosns about this and that, and ask any questions you like. Remember there are NO "stupid questions" I can guarantee you that you'll get lots of answers and opinions to choose from :-)


One of the "missions" of this 'ere forum is to get people like you off to a good start :-)


Welcome, and all the best in your endeavours

TrentePieds.

[TrentePieds]

Skywalker:

Your comment about your ineligibility to enter the US came in while I was writing my previous post.

My counsel would be to be VERY,VERY careful! There is a stink in our Parliament at the moment because the Royal Canadian Navy has been "impressed" (forced) to play rentacop for the US Coast Guard, mainly in the Caribbean but I hear rumours that the same games are being played off the coast of Nova Scotia. The USCG doesn't give a damn about international agreements when they are looking for "druggies", and if you get caught in anything like that, the onus will be on you to prove that you are innocent. And while that process drags on you might well lose your boat in a little game called "Civil Asset Forfeiture"

I say again: Do what you intend to do with your eyes wide open!!!

TP

[gulfcoastsailor]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Look at boats in the Great Lakes, no salt, gentle usage, short seasons.

I thought the same thing being in Florida. So when I started my search I scanned northern boats. Four of four boats surveyed had water intrusion issues. Seems unless they are stored indoors for the winter, the melting winter snow is a long slow melt giving water time to search out any nook or cranny to infiltrate the decks and hulls.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

How serious is the limitation? You don't have to give us your legal background but real risky if its a situation where they are likely to lock you up if they catch you. Bad weather or a break down even if a few hundred miles off shore could force you to head to the USA for safety reasons and once there you are subject to their jurisdiction.

Technically as long as you don't touch shore or drop anchor you are OK but technicalities don't always cut it. If you are hugging the coast for hundreds of miles they may decide you must have anchored at some point or intended to anchor. You may be in the right but that doesn't always work.

How the US is changing, and so incredibly quickly, very very sad. Anyone remember The Immigrant by Neil Sedaka? Reading the above post I am reminded of Webb Chiles sailing through the Red Sea some years back. He experienced some unfortunate boat problem and had no choice but to land. Unfortunately the shore was Saudi Arabia and he was spotted, arrested and put in prison. At the convenience of the Saudi authorities, some time later, finally questioned. You can read about this in his book The Ocean Waits. Link is the free PDF version.

But my suggestion for the OP is proceed with your plan to sail the Arctic Circle route. Fantastic ambition. Watch the YouTube Channel DrakeParagon as in their latest series they sail to Greenland. There are quite a number of channels in a similar vain, whether Antarctic or Arctic trips they'll have value.

But to gain some real ocean experience volunteer to crew on some crossings. Always people looking for help and typically all you need to pay is the airfare. It's valuable because you'll gain an understanding of what ocean crossings entail, how you cope with sea sickness and tiredness, and the absolute nothingness out there and the virtual isolation. On a wet boat you'll also understand being freezing cold and wet all the time. And trust me, it's no fun sleeping in a soaking wet bag.

Much of what you'll read on this forum are from people with deep wallets and luxurious vessels (comparatively). So air con/heating, unlimited pressure water, clothes washer/dryers and generously appointed vessels sailing in tropical climes tend to dominate the discussions. And I'm not knocking wealth, just saying. Where as the OP has a considerably limited budget, so fitting out of whatever vessel he/she buys will result in a more frugal experience. But OP don't skimp on heating!

Several delivery skippers lurk the forum and I'm sure one or two of them will be looking for a competent crew from time to time.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

Would you say newfoundland is the best cruising grounds in canada? You make a valid point about just jumping into it, but i will be living aboard a ship in august doing my 101 and 103 for 5 days so that should give me a pretty good idea. The main reason i want to do ot is for adventure and to get away, its always kinda been a dream of mine and im always looking for a new more challenging adventure.

Not having cruised all of Canada, I can't say whether Newfoundland is the best. I can say, though, that of all the places I've cruised (Pacific coast of Mex and Central America, Caribbean, Bahamas, East coast US), it's my favorite.
Another word of caution and I'll belabor the point no more. Dreams aren't always what they seem. I always dreamed of being a jungle explorer when I was young. Then I went to the jungle and I realized that it sucks. My new dream is an office job in a climate-controlled building. That can't possibly go wrong!

[philiosophy]

A fine good morning to you and welcome. Its a lovely dream and here is my two bits worth of advice.Don’t spend a bunch of money on all those ASA sailing classes. If you have done the first few good. Thats plenty. If you really want to learn about sailing....Sail. Many people are looking for able crew all over the world. You will learn what you need to know first hand while actually doin it for the cost of an round trip ticket. Do this a time or two a year and you will see what type of boat you want and how to rig it. Find a Crew and Crew Bay are a couple of my favorite sites when I am looking for crew. The rest of the time sail locally on the weekends and during the week as race crew. There is no better way to learn the art of sail trim than as race crew. Racing is all about getting the boat to sail as efficiently and fast with just the wind. You will find this experience very valuable when you begin to cruise tho you will not need to press the boat so hard. If you crew on boats crossing to and from New Zealand from the Islands of Tonga,Fiji, Vanautu and the like you will have some very good experience with weather and storm tactics as well as a chance to check the brokerages in New Zealand where you will get way more( at least 30% more bang for your buck) where cruising boats are very well designed and maintained due to pure necessity. In New Zealand and Australia the have Catagory 1 regulations which will mean your boat has all the equipment you might want.
Where ever you buy your boat there are some things to consider. How will the boat handle heavy weather? There are many production boats out there like Beneauteau’s Catalina’s, Jeaneau’s and even some Hunters. These boats usualy point up and sail like the wind. Not the greatest in heavy weather tho. The surf like the dickens and are not constructed or rigged for heavy conditions. Thats why they are classified as Coastal Cruisers. An example of what I am saying. A friend of mine has a Catalina 47.That boat has the same size rig as my Southern Cross 39 and less of it, even tho it weighs twice what my boat does. There are many low production or one off boats out there that are made for offshore cruising and not necessarily full keel boats. Rafiki 37, Southern Cross 35 or 39 Westsail 32, Wauquiez Pratorien 35, Pacific Seacraft 34 Cavalier 39, Herreshoff 13 meter and many many others.
If you are not really handy with a multimeter learn to be. Take some classes by your local Power Squadron or other resource on diesel engine repair and maintenance. Hang out at haulout facilities that allow owners to do their own work. Nothing like hands on to learn. Owners love to talk about their boats and there is much to learn from them. Don’t fall in love with an image of your dream boat and certainly dont fall in love with a boat at first site. Learn what makes a good boat. Both design and construction wise. Try not to fall for the idea of a major fixer upper. A boat is a hole in the water you fill up with money. Don’t buy a bigger hole just because the price fits your budget. That hole gets exponentially bigger with every foot of length. Read read read. Watch Skip Novac’s Utube videos. Read Larry and Lin Pardies books. There are books that will tell you the actual ost you can expect to pay to upkeep and cruise your boat. Be real cause it ain’t cheap. That said it can be done successfully on many different budgets if you are realistic and prepare properly. Cheers and best of luck.

[Tillsbury]

All good points, except I would not recommend buying in New Zealand if you don’t have to. Category 1 only applies to NZ registered boats, which will have had tax and duty paid which adds another 20%. NZ is also a destination for many budget cruisers, who purchase cheap ex-charter boats in the med and sail here with minimal maintenance, putting the then-tired results on the market for optimistic prices. In looking at buying recently, boats here are significantly more expensive than they are in busier markets such as the US, UK, and Med. There are some cheap ones, but they don’t usually look like good buys.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by grantmc

How the US is changing, and so incredibly quickly, very very sad. Anyone remember The Immigrant by Neil Sedaka? Reading the above post I am reminded of Webb Chiles sailing through the Red Sea some years back. He experienced some unfortunate boat problem and had no choice but to land. Unfortunately the shore was Saudi Arabia and he was spotted, arrested and put in prison. At the convenience of the Saudi authorities, some time later, finally questioned.

What has changed?

The OP has some legal issue that prohibits him from entering the USA. If it is a criminal offense (and I'm not saying it is), spending a lot of time just off the USA coast is pretty risky if he's forced to land due to safety issues.

Even if he doesn't land, if he is in US territorial waters and they find out he's wanted, I'm betting that is enough to take him into custody.

The right to pass thru territorial waters doesn't mean you are immune from that countries law while in those waters.

Nothing new here or different from most countries.

As far as the Saudi story, I looked it up. It happened almost 40yrs ago. He had boat problems and rather than call the authorities on the radio for assistance, he landed and walked ashore in an isolated area. Saudi is very security conscious. Hardly surprising that the authorities who mostly didn't speak english struggled with what to do with a guy who violated the border. From reading the story and having spent a bit of time in the middle east, it was mostly an issue of he was so far outside the norm that they didn't know what to do with him, so it took a while to get the approvals to release him.

[Skywalker204]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

What has changed?

The OP has some legal issue that prohibits him from entering the USA. If it is a criminal offense (and I'm not saying it is), spending a lot of time just off the USA coast is pretty risky if he's forced to land due to safety issues.

Even if he doesn't land, if he is in US territorial waters and they find out he's wanted, I'm betting that is enough to take him into custody.

The right to pass thru territorial waters doesn't mean you are immune from that countries law while in those waters.

Nothing new here or different from most countries.

As far as the Saudi story, I looked it up. It happened almost 40yrs ago. He had boat problems and rather than call the authorities on the radio for assistance, he landed and walked ashore in an isolated area. Saudi is very security conscious. Hardly surprising that the authorities who mostly didn't speak english struggled with what to do with a guy who violated the border. From reading the story and having spent a bit of time in the middle east, it was mostly an issue of he was so far outside the norm that they didn't know what to do with him, so it took a while to get the approvals to release him.

What does OP stand for? Also im not a wanted fugitive on the run here lol. I wouldnt get arrested id get deined entry if anything (i think, not sure how thatd work one the ocean thou). I havnt tried to go to the states since i had a little hicup with the law here in Manitoba where i live. Its just if i go to try to enter the states the get a copy of my record and itll be on their records for life making it extremely difficult to enter the states even after i get my canadian pardon in 5 years.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

What does OP stand for?

Original Poster. i.e. the person who started the thread.