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Old 03-07-2014, 22:55   #31
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I would like to address why we suggest smaller boats at first and lakes. Its not to keep you off the ocean for our own use. There is plenty of space out in the ocean, and when I see another sailor I usually try to hail them on the VHF or wave merrily. It happens so rarely up here...
No, the reasons we suggest learning on a dingy:
1. You learn to rely on the sail and not the motor.
2. You learn really quickly what works and what doesn't.
3. You can do stupid moves and nobody cares.
4. It rarely costs much. I picked up my first dingy (sail and all) for 20 dollars. My last one cost 700. (a laser)
5. Maintenance is almost nonexistent.
6.If sailing is not your cup of tea, you learn without costing you a lot of bread.
In other words, we are just trying to save you time and money...This is for the next person who asks...
Can I learn to sail on a 50 foot Oyster?
that's why I am sailing this little girl around . but when I see a 40footer sailing by ,or heading out to sea .I really wish it was me on board .
one day

cheers

jimmy
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Old 03-07-2014, 23:52   #32
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

Good on ya Jimmy. If I sail past you with my 40 footer, I'll salute you.
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Old 04-07-2014, 00:09   #33
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

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I would counter this. Dinghy sailing teaches you to sail dinghies, large boat sailing is more about travelling to places, navigation, learning to "live" on and with the boat.

The actual art of "basic " sail trim, etc can be picked up quite quickly by anyone interested enough. Sailing a laser, will never prepare you for a heavy weather ocean crossing.

The best way to learn to sail, is to do it often, on a dinghy or a 50ft Oyster , its doesn't really matter, but you do need to understand the difference. If you intend to sail a 30-40 footer, then I suggest you learn on that platform.


dave
Dinghies are a great way to get into sailing. I started out with one designs, crewed on a Lightning then build a Southeaster in high school, and was able to sail on my Dad's bigger boats. The whole time I raced (and practiced) dinghies I can never recall reefing or heaving to. Never really navigated in a meaningfully sense or maintained in the sense you maintain a big boat.

All this was done on monohulls with a few short time exceptions. So when I got a catamaran it was another learning experience. While the experience on my Dad's H28 and Abaco schooner was a great experience a lot of what I learned there needed to be relearned as related to a catamaran.

Every boat is different.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:39   #34
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

quite agree tomfl.

An issue here relative to ocean work, is that as wind strength increases linearly, its force on the sails increases exponentially.

The effect of this is that a fairly small increment in wind strength can quickly overpower a yacht. This is why there is all the advice around about reefing early.

Personally, I think words do not tell the story adequately. The experience of being blown almost to spreaders in the water in a mono does do that. Maybe the cat people can tell us how it is for them.

Ann
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:36   #35
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

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SNIP

Maybe the cat people can tell us how it is for them.

Ann
I sailed monohulls for most of my life and only bought a cat recently. I had done lots of research and tried to get an understanding of the difference between what I will call normal cats and high performance cats. Even something like a Gunboat (which I consider more of a fast cruising cat as opposed to a high performance cat) has very limited healing and seldom gets the windward hull out of the water more than a couple of feet. An AC boat or similar race boats lift their windward hull a lot higher and more frequently. I have sailed small beach cats which are similar to the race cats in terms of lifting hulls. But the rest of this post is about cats that should never, or very seldom at best, lift a hull.

The first thing most sailors notice about a well designed cruising cat is there is almost no heeling, instead the boat accelerates and the apparent wind shifts forward. If you think you are being overpowered you fall off instead of heading up which reduces the apparent wind speed, the opposite of what most monohull sailors do. There is really no sensation of danger, just going faster. You need to understand the concept of reefing based on apparent wind speed, not heeling. If you start lifting a hull on all but the most performance oriented cruising cats almost for sure it is past time to reef.

One of my biggest shocks was how light the rudder feels when sailing at ten knots. On a monohull the rudder always seemed to get heavier and there was an increase in the weather helm. This is a double edged sword. It is great to have a light responsive helm, but the downside is that there is no physical clue that you are getting close to the danger zone.

I tend to be a gentleman sailor and I am sure there are other cat owners who push the envelope more than I do that may have different ideas about cats sailing close to the edge. But I try and keep far away from the edge.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:42   #36
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

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Sailors, esp those that travel off the beaten path, must provide everything including almost all repairs on your home. This is not relaxing on the beach all the time, but more often sweating in a tight locker trying to screw in a hose clamp while wishing it was not so hot.
newt, how the heck did you know exactly what happened on my cruise last week? HOW?!?
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Old 04-07-2014, 16:19   #37
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

Thanks Stu! Glad I nailed that!
Tom brings up an interesting question. Since Big Cats act so differently than monos, should a dedicated cat lover use Hobies and such to get their sea legs? I have ran with a Hobie during a thunderstorm, and it wasn't pleasant till we were sheltered (10 minutes of terror in a microburst)
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Old 04-07-2014, 16:39   #38
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Re: New Sailor's guide to Ocean work.

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Thanks Stu! Glad I nailed that!
Tom brings up an interesting question. Since Big Cats act so differently than monos, should a dedicated cat lover use Hobies and such to get their sea legs? I have ran with a Hobie during a thunderstorm, and it wasn't pleasant till we were sheltered (10 minutes of terror in a microburst)
Not to say Hobies are a bad choice but to some multihull guys they are viewed as a heavy out of date design only suitable for noobies who lack the knowledge and skill to sail a real beach cat. Even cats like NACRAs and Class As are viewed as old fashioned and the recent decision to not allow foils on the Class A cats was not really popular.

When I was looking at boats I sailed on several Fboats before finally getting a Seawind (which to some cat guys is better named Sea Slug) and there was general agreement that the Fboats sailed at about 115% of wind speed while the Seawind sailed at two thirds of wind speed.

So I would divide boats into maybe three types, those that sail at hull speed, those that sail at some fraction of wind speed, and those that sail at above wind speed.

I place cruising cats (what you call big cats) in the 'sail at some fraction of wind speed' class. They seldom fly a hull and if they do it is God's way of telling the skipper it is time to reef. I really don't know of any beach cat that fits in that class. But I don't hold myself as an expert on multihulls.
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