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Old 13-10-2012, 12:30   #1
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Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

Hi everyone, we are in the process of negotiating with a brokerage for a boat that they actually own, due to a trade in. I've looked all over the boards and I can't find any information about it.

My question is: Is there any advantage to buying from a brokerage who actually owns the boat vs a seller who the brokerage is representing? I hope that makes sense. At this point we are $3500 apart in price and standing there, staring at each other.

Also, they got a survey done by a very reputable surveyor that is quite extensive. Should we accept that survey or have another one done?

Thanks for any thoughts.
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Old 13-10-2012, 12:46   #2
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

If the Broker took the boat on trade in, they are paying dock fees, floor taxes and maintenance fees on the vessel every month it sits at there dock unsold...

You didn't say what type of boat it is or how much your offer was, but my guess is they will probably come down in price by the end of the month, when they fees come due again.
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Old 13-10-2012, 12:57   #3
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

$3500 apart can be a lot or a little.

A better data point is to know the % apart you are, and how much % of the initial listing price that is... (So for example saying we are apart 2% after 20% off initial listing price...)

With regards to the surveyor. How old is the survey? Is it all positive, or are there any issues brought up? (There are ALWAYS issues, it is a BOAT: Bring Out All Troubles).

The brokerage unfortunately has some influence on the surveyor, as they bring him lots of business. In spite of this, it may be good, especially if the surveyor is one of those accepted by your insurance company....

Good luck
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Old 13-10-2012, 12:58   #4
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
If the Broker took the boat on trade in, they are paying dock fees, floor taxes and maintenance fees on the vessel every month it sits at there dock unsold...

You didn't say what type of boat it is or how much your offer was, but my guess is they will probably come down in price by the end of the month, when they fees come due again.
And if not by the end of the month, for sure by the end of the quarter....
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Old 13-10-2012, 18:07   #5
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

Thanks everyone for your replies. The broker says that 75G is as far as he is willing to go and our offer was 71.5G. The original price was 79.9G. I think we will offer to split the difference. We were a little surprised that he didn't accept our offer as it is a cash deal, but I guess this is how the game is played.

The boat is an IP32. We like the boat a lot and it will fit our needs, but we can walk away without looking back, too. I've just never dealt with a broker-owned boat before and don't quite know what to expect (or where to go from here). It's hard to admit to ignorance.
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Old 13-10-2012, 18:40   #6
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

In our limited experience $5k off seems to be the broker standard for quality boats in that price range. We've run up against that number a few times now and heard from others who have as well. I'm sure it must be the standard curriculum at broker school. We've chosen to walk away so far. $5k is not negotiating, its bottom lining. There isn't a real conversation happening and as we all know every boat is different in terms of condition, equipment, age, etc... so both parties should be willing and prepared to discuss how to arrive at a price all can accept. That might not be possible and a $5k discount may be justifiable on a particular boat but you just don't know unless you have the conversation. Bottom lining is generally used by inexperienced and/or lazy negotiators, and people who assume they have the power in the negotiation, FWIW. It is a high pressure sales tactic. Here's a good explanation:

"Some negotiators love to use a bogus bottom line, or ultimatum—a point beyond which the deal is not negotiable. For example, the person you’re negotiating with might say that her supervisor will not allow her to decrease the price lower than a certain number. Giving a false bottom line is a way to avoid having to negotiate many concessions, and it can be used in just about any situation."
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Old 13-10-2012, 18:41   #7
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

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Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl View Post
In our limited experience $5k off seems to be the broker standard for quality boats in that price range. We've run up against that number a few times now and heard from others who have as well. I'm sure it must be the standard curriculum at broker school. We've chosen to walk away so far. $5k is not negotiating, its bottom lining. There isn't a real conversation happening and as we all know every boat is different in terms of condition, equipment, age, etc... so both parties should be willing and prepared to discuss how to arrive at a price all can accept. That might not be possible and a $5k discount may be justifiable on a particular boat but you just don't know unless you have the conversation. Bottom lining is generally used by inexperienced and/or lazy negotiators, and people who assume they have the power in the negotiation, FWIW. It is a high pressure sales tactic. Here's a good explanation:

"Some negotiators love to use a bogus bottom line, or ultimatum—a point beyond which the deal is not negotiable. For example, the person you’re negotiating with might say that her supervisor will not allow her to decrease the price lower than a certain number. Giving a false bottom line is a way to avoid having to negotiate many concessions, and it can be used in just about any situation."
+1 Wholeheartedly agree....
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Old 13-10-2012, 18:47   #8
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

I would write a check right in front of the Main Broker and say here's my CASH offer ! if ya want it we have a deal if ya don't I will go and try the next boat on my list !! But then Im a old hard head who worked for my boat bucks and Im sure you did also ! Just a thought!
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Old 13-10-2012, 19:09   #9
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

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I would write a check right in front of the Main Broker and say here's my CASH offer ! if ya want it we have a deal if ya don't I will go and try the next boat on my list !! But then Im a old hard head who worked for my boat bucks and Im sure you did also ! Just a thought!
I remember someone trying that exact thing on me when I was selling a car. The car was well priced, and in appropriate shape. The gentleman thought he was being cute using this as negotiation tactic.

I thought it was cute when I tore the check up. My price was fair, and I knew it was, and he was trying to steal the car.

Guess I'm just an old hard head.

P.S. His wife called that evening and asked if I would sell it to them at my asking price. She would bring cash tomorrow, because her husband 'had to work'. She drove it away the next day. Without the theatrics, they could have had a small discount.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter what the discount is. What matters is if the boat is fairly priced. It may require a 50% discount, or it may be a screaming good deal at $5K off the asking price. Only you can make that decision, but don't get hung up on the discount.
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Old 13-10-2012, 19:10   #10
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

Is the broker an IP dealer?? If so, they have a vested interest in getting as high a price for the boat as possible other than what they have in it. In fact, such an interest they may not be willing to deal beyond what they have already countered. One big thing you've got going for you is the soon approaching first snow flakes if the boat is in the so called temperate climate zone. The brokerage is looking at possible six months before they'll get anybody to dig through the snow to present another offer.

Depending on the dealer, they may have no carrying costs other than the loss of interest on their money in the boat. They could afford to wait a long time with the interest rates what they are. The broker may be paying for slips whether there is a boat in them or not as a part of their business. Another six months on the bottom paint is probably no big thing as they can wait till next spring to clean the bottom again. Unlike an individual, the dealer has what they consider a reasonable investment in the boat. A private owner has all sorts of other things pressuring them to get a deal once they decide to sell. An individual could even give the boat away if they were motivated enough. Doubt you'd find a dealer that would be anywhere near that motivated.

Assume that price is close to the going price for the IP32 though it seems high for a 32' boat, even a quality boat of that length/displacement. There are a lot of similar boats and/or larger boats that are cheaper. What it really boils down to is, is the boat worth where they are at now or is your offer more in line with reality??
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Old 14-10-2012, 02:38   #11
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelfish2 View Post
Hi everyone, we are in the process of negotiating with a brokerage for a boat that they actually own, due to a trade in. I've looked all over the boards and I can't find any information about it.

My question is: Is there any advantage to buying from a brokerage who actually owns the boat vs a seller who the brokerage is representing? I hope that makes sense. At this point we are $3500 apart in price and standing there, staring at each other.

Also, they got a survey done by a very reputable surveyor that is quite extensive. Should we accept that survey or have another one done?

Thanks for any thoughts.
If the price is good for the boat - then pay it. Otherwise don't! (but a genuinely good one is worth more than average). Personally I would go back to the Vendor and say your offer is withdrawn and you will think about it a bit more.......and see what happens in the next few weeks. or months! (if you are happy to lose the boat).

No fundamental difference in buying a boat owned by a Broker than from any other Vendor - all of them have a boat they want to sell, and want your money.

However, I would think carefully about whether the Broker should also act as the Broker - especially on the Escrow (cash handling) end of things. They can wear 2 hats, but that requires a degree of trust (which I don't have!) not to play silly buggars, no matter what the agreements say. Of course with good agreements can always go to court, but IMO something to be avoided. I am particularly thinking of a circumstance where your survey (yes, you should get own) throws up issues which would normally be discussed and negotiated before you agree to buy - but where the Vendor already has your money (even if wearing a different hat) could be a temptation to say the boat has been sold to you - see you in court if you disagree (or for you to simply feel pressured to accept a deal for fear of that occurring).

Obviously everyone has different comfort levels when it comes to trusting others with their cash.
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Old 14-10-2012, 03:06   #12
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
I remember someone trying that exact thing on me when I was selling a car. The car was well priced, and in appropriate shape. The gentleman thought he was being cute using this as negotiation tactic.

I thought it was cute when I tore the check up. My price was fair, and I knew it was, and he was trying to steal the car.

Guess I'm just an old hard head.

P.S. His wife called that evening and asked if I would sell it to them at my asking price. She would bring cash tomorrow, because her husband 'had to work'. She drove it away the next day. Without the theatrics, they could have had a small discount.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter what the discount is. What matters is if the boat is fairly priced. It may require a 50% discount, or it may be a screaming good deal at $5K off the asking price. Only you can make that decision, but don't get hung up on the discount.
I agree completely, when I decide to sell something I price it at whatever amount I think it'll sell for. First person with cash takes it. Sometimes the first guy f**ks around and I sell it to the second guy. I like to buy things the same way. How much am I willing to pay? Thats how much cash I got in my pocket. There's nothing wrong with saying take it or leave it, just don't say it unless you mean it.
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Old 14-10-2012, 08:28   #13
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

Thank you everybody, I don't know what I'd without y'all.

We are having a lot of fun looking at other boats and will continue to do so the next few days. I'll sure let you know what we decide to do. *many big hugs*
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Old 14-10-2012, 09:02   #14
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Re: Negotiating for Brokerage Owned Boat?

Your offer sounds very fair given today's market and the time of year. Although, spitting the difference might work out well. I wouldn't let a good boat get away over $1,700 or so.
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Old 14-10-2012, 09:28   #15
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There is a nice IP 35 on the east coast of FL for about that price...Have you checked that one out ?
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