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Old 12-07-2016, 21:09   #1
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Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Hey everyone
We are in the beginning stages of planning a sailing route from California and ending in Europe somewhere on a 22' Catalina what would you do as a route and what stops would you make for how long etc. would love some suggestions. We are a family of three with a young child.
Thanks!!
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Old 12-07-2016, 21:55   #2
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Lemme get this straight, you're planning to sail half way across the globe, crossing several oceans, with your wife and young child on a Catalina 22?


Sorry if this is coming across blunt but ... NO! Just NO!
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Old 12-07-2016, 22:02   #3
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Trolling, trolling, over the bounding main...

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Old 12-07-2016, 22:11   #4
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Yeah, I guess I fell for that one!
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Old 12-07-2016, 22:31   #5
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Obviosuly didn't clarify our trip starts in California and we will be cruising along the coast line then ending somewhere in Europe via air!! We will be crossing through the Panama Canal into the Caribbean. So any must sees along that route would be appreciated!! Thanks
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Old 12-07-2016, 22:48   #6
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Well coastal cruising is at least possible in a 22 foot Catalina. I've heard of a few brave and or crazy souls crossing oceans in a 22 foot boats. It was not a Catalina and one young man made it at least part way.

First issue is there is not enough tankage for 2 adults and a baby to even consider more then a 2-3 day trip on calm bays. So right there you are not crossing oceans with 2.5 people as you will not have enough water to last 30 days at 3-4 knots. A week would be challenging.

So if you really have tons of years sailing experience as another post indicated, why start such an obvious non-starter type thread??? Perhaps putting the boat on the trailer and driving to Texas would be a good starting point. It is probably easier to drive to Europe from California then to try to sail a 22' boat with 2.5 people, of which only one, in theory, knows how to sail. Yes I know you can't drive to Europe either.

A Catalina 22 is not in any size shape or form ocean rated. It's hull/deck joint is screws and glue and light weight. Only adequate for day sailing in protected bays.

What a challenge, cross San Pablo Bay from Vallejo to china camp in any summer afternoon with an outgoing tide. That's protected water and it will knock a light 22 footer all about.
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Old 12-07-2016, 23:09   #7
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

My husband and I both go on this site under this name, my husband has the experience. We are not crossing major oceans we are staying along the coastline and then will fly to Europe. I posted this thread in search of advice for stops along the way that others have enjoyed with family. Not looking for criticism and I understand this is the "internet". My husband has plenty of experience however myself I do not so I am hoping to hear what other families or couples have done and recommend. I trust my husbands advice 100% however with our son being with us I would just like to hear successful routes other families have done.
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Old 12-07-2016, 23:28   #8
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

In a public forum, you and your "experienced" husband are proposing a dangerous voyage in a vessel absolutely not designed for it and on top of that, you intend to take an infant along with you? And you're surprised when people criticize you?
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Old 13-07-2016, 00:10   #9
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas55 View Post
My husband and I both go on this site under this name, my husband has the experience. We are not crossing major oceans we are staying along the coastline and then will fly to Europe. I posted this thread in search of advice for stops along the way that others have enjoyed with family. Not looking for criticism and I understand this is the "internet". My husband has plenty of experience however myself I do not so I am hoping to hear what other families or couples have done and recommend. I trust my husbands advice 100% however with our son being with us I would just like to hear successful routes other families have done.
Your going to need a bigger boat. A family of 4 in a 28-30' boat lost their lives doing "Coastal" sailing off Tampa just a few weeks ago. Their boat was also a light weight boat with an outboard and they were caught out in a unexpected storm. Not a big storm, but 30 knot winds and 6 foot seas, which is not really bad weather even for coastal, which happens any the time on the California coast A 22' boat in those conditions would sink even sooner.. The BAJA haha sees seas to 15 feet many times, which is not a problem with a good boat. A 22' catilina would have it's seams split in that.

Most family's are sailing 35-45 foot, or larger boats, not 22' boats.

The problem with the 22 foot boat is it does not hold enough water, let alone fuel to travel any significant distance.

Take mexico baja. You have ensanada, only 70 ish miles from San Diego, then 700 ish miles to cabo with turtle bay, may bay and a few other fishing villages along that barren coast. 300 miles from ensanada to turtle bay is not going to work. You'll need 5 gallons of water a day for 2.5 people and its a 1 week trip in a 3.5-4 knot sailboat with stops in anchorages every 40-60 miles or so. There isn't room in a 22 foot boat for 40- 60 gallons of water. Not to mention that the boat is not designed to carry that much water weight, let alone food for a week, fuel, clothing, etc..

Sailing down the atlantic intercoastal is doable in a 22' boat. Sailing from Texas to florida is doable with good weather windows. Not so much on the pacific side, where protected bays are few and very far between.

It's 2000 miles from SF to panama with a few exciting passages. Storms come up quickly. Storms that would trash a very lightly built 22 foot boat, 10 times before you got there.

Please take the boat out on San Pablo bay for a easy 12 mile day trip to china camp from vallejo. San Pablo is a "protected bay". But with 20-25 knot winds on the nose and 3-4 foot chop it will be exciting. Not at all as exciting as 25-30 knots, along the coast in the ocean.

Your asking the wrong question. The first question is what boat will safely take my family to Panama. It never is a 22' Catalina. If your other half says it's safe, its not. You need to start at 30 feet just to get the tankage up.
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Old 13-07-2016, 01:17   #10
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Everything is possible.

However because it is possible does not mean it should be done. The problem is the vessel you are considering doing this trip in.

Here is the YOUTUBE site of a couple that traveled all over Europe starting in the UK and ending in Greece and then home again. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGp...JWmqY11nLQ2YVQ

I have a Westerly Centaur just like this couple. I have faith in its abilities and its seaworthiness in controlled conditions. You need a boat at least like this for tankage and comfort.... and for when you get caught out in a rough sea. If you coastal carefully, it will not let you down. It is 27 feet long.

I have crossed the English Channel in one of these and got weather struck for a time in a force 6/7. Not comfortable but never felt unsafe.

The bilge keel makes for easy beaching in tidal waters.

My suggestion is to change your boat. Doing that could save your life.

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Old 13-07-2016, 06:30   #11
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas55 View Post
...I would just like to hear successful routes other families have done.
See, the thing is that NO ONE has done this, successfully, in such a small boat. NO ONE!

That's why you are not getting the simple answers that you wanted.

I wish you good luck, but I fear for what might happen if you actually try to do this.
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Old 13-07-2016, 07:07   #12
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Hi Sevenseas.

Sorry but I have to agree with the general sentiment.

Yes small boats can and have been used for long voyages but a Catalina 22 is not in the class of boats that are designed to do this. It is a very light weight, day sailor. It is not built or designed to handle the conditions you will encounter in the open ocean, even in what you call coastal cruising. Not only in the strength of the boat but the limited stability in large waves and strong winds. In this case when I refer to large waves and strong winds it would mean conditions most would consider moderate for a boat truly built for ocean sailing and conditions you will be 100% certain to encounter on the trip you propose. Also as several have mentioned it doesn't have the tankage nor does it have the storage for a long voyage with a family.

West coast of the US coastal cruising is very much a misconception. Just because one is close to the coast does not impart safety to the boat and crew. In fact, on the CA and Mexican coast it is quite the opposite. In sections it can be a long distance between safe, accessible ports so a "coastal" cruise might be a week or more in a small boat. As Sailorchic noted, coastal wind and sea conditions in the Pacific are often way, way more than a Catalina 22 could ever handle, even by the most experienced sailor.

With all due respect and hopefully taken in the spirit offered, as a suggestion for the safety of you and your family, if your husband's experience leads him to believe that a Catalina 22 is appropriate for sailing CA to the Panama Canal and from there to the Caribbean I think he should rethink, very seriously.
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Old 13-07-2016, 07:24   #13
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Another concern, once you reach Panama and transit the Canal where would you go? If planning to head east towards the islands of the Lesser Antilles (Trinidad up the the Virgin Islands), you will be facing two, giant obstacles.

One you will be sailing against the trade winds and currents which are constant, very, very strong and have defeated many boats much larger and stronger than a Catalina 22. Then you will also have to bypass the Venezuelan coast since it has an extremely high risk of attacks on passing boaters. This would leave you with a 500 mile or more trip to get around this area, again dead against very strong winds and currents.

If you plan to sail north along the coast of Central America you will have better course based on the winds, waves and currents but still have areas where the risk of assault by local criminals is too high and again have to make a voyage of a couple hundred miles or more to bypass and reach a safe area.
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Old 13-07-2016, 08:10   #14
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Do trolls use trolling motors on their boats?
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Old 13-07-2016, 08:28   #15
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Why is it dangerous to sail along coastline down to Mexico and possibly around to Caribbean? I'm just curious I've been told the boat is capable outside this forum...thank you skipmac for an actual thoughtful kind comment. I will speak with my husband when he gets back he's in an area with no phone contact, I've been left with the task of looking for possible boats and the owner informed me this vessel could do our proposed trip. Boats aside, are there areas you would stay longer or explore etc along this route?

Not a troll just a woman with absolutely no sailing experience other then being a passenger in the San Francisco Bay a few times. So we are looking for an inexpensive boat and a coastal cruise before going bigger and making a large sea crossing. Sorry if I sound like a "troll" but just looking to be welcomed into a group with experience for information and to possibly make some friends along our routes since we won't be livIng in a neighborhood. Everyone starts somewhere in new ventures and even if I sail for ten years and know heaps about a sailboat I may still call the kitchen in a boat a kitchen...doesn't make me a troll.
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