Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Sevenseas55

Obviosuly didn't clarify our trip starts in California and we will be cruising along the coast line then ending somewhere in Europe via air!! We will be crossing through the Panama Canal into the Caribbean. So any must sees along that route would be appreciated!! Thanks

Your posts still need further clarification. You are going to Europe from the Caribbean by air. What happens to the boat? It would be quite expensive to ship the boat... I guess in the order of $15,000.

Panama Canal has restrictions on vessels allowed through it. Yours would not be able to go through.

And before that you have the huge untamed coast of Mexico with virtually no ports for you, no anchorages, no stop offs.

Then the Central American coast on the Pacific side has some overnight stops that would be far too dodgy for you, let alone a family.

All in all, a 22 ft Catalina can not go overnight safely without available ports. Theres none, or just not enough.

It wouldnt be an adventure, it would be a very expensive suicide.


Mark

[zeehag]

you are planning this in a 22 catalina??
ok here is the list of the necessary stuff you need to do--
1)learn to sail
2)practice sailing.
3) go to catalina from wherever you are. IN the 22 catalina.
4)think about your adventure when you are in avalon.. mebbe stay in avalon thru a santana event. not the band the wind.
5) sail back to wherever you started
6)rethink the boat you intend to use.

mark j--there are many anchorages-- just not advertised to all... keeps em secret until ye get here, then ye get to learn about them. some are not fit for summer use some not fit for winter use... all along the mexicoast are beautiful anchorages. no amenities. ports, yes with marinas and anchorages both. is a beautiful place, west coast mexico.
BUT, in a 22 catalina they will not be comfortable

this is a mighty brave misadventure which could be pulled off by the right experienced sailor, operative word, experienced.
most experienced folk seek larger and sturdier transport devices. 22 catalinas aint built like the dove..

my suggestion-- if ye wanna go to europe via boat is cunard lines. OR crew on a friends boat...
or
fly to europe and find a canal boat there to rent. no i dont know who to call, but there gotta be someone renting those. that would be an awesome adventure

some brave surfer guys are cruising down here in west coast mexico in ericson 27, pearson 26, 27, and some 30 ft islanders and cheoy lees and other inexpensive boats.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Your going to need a bigger boat.

uh oh

[Sevenseas55]

Thank you zeehag obviously what I have been told about the boat may be exaggerated by seller....my husband intends on teaching me before we go. We are not going to pack it up and just leave with me having no idea. As I stated earlier I have been a passenger so I know I do not get seasick and I really enjoy the peacefulness it brings.

Siamese judging by this comment you made on another thread I believe it's a little hypocritical to be so rude:

Some people don't know they don't know. As I approach a new activity, I realize I'm starting from scratch, and do my best to educate myself so I'm not a hazard to myself, others, or the equipment involved.

Others blithely venture forth with little or no forethought, and often seem impervious to experience or instruction. Different personality type, I guess. And an approach for which I have no respect.

I have no expectations with people. I'm extremely careful about giving unsolicited advice, but can sometimes encourage someone to ask for it. If you can get them to ask, great, otherwise...pfffft.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Sevenseas55

Why is it dangerous to sail along coastline down to Mexico and possibly around to Caribbean? I'm just curious I've been told the boat is capable outside this forum...thank you skipmac for an actual thoughtful kind comment. I will speak with my husband when he gets back he's in an area with no phone contact, I've been left with the task of looking for possible boats and the owner informed me this vessel could do our proposed trip. Boats aside, are there areas you would stay longer or explore etc along this route?

Not a troll just a woman with absolutely no sailing experience other then being a passenger in the San Francisco Bay a few times. So we are looking for an inexpensive boat and a coastal cruise before going bigger and making a large sea crossing. Sorry if I sound like a "troll" but just looking to be welcomed into a group with experience for information and to possibly make some friends along our routes since we won't be livIng in a neighborhood. Everyone starts somewhere in new ventures and even if I sail for ten years and know heaps about a sailboat I may still call the kitchen in a boat a kitchen...doesn't make me a troll.

OK, so you are not a troll. What follows is written in a friendly voice with the sole intent to help you.

We are all ignorant on some things. I know I am too.

But reasonable people carefully consider the experience of others prior to taking a step that could be life threatening. You have already gotten very sound advice in the comments above.

Reality check!

It is simply UNREALISTIC to take a Catalina 22 on such a long voyage off the Pacific coast.

As written in your earlier posts, you are a woman with young infant and a sixty year old man who says he has 45 years of sailing experience. That is three lives. All three of those may be lost because of the poor judgement of one, the one who is supposed to have experience.

Ignorance is bliss.
Because you have obviously never sailed down the Pacific coast, you are not aware of how dangerous it can be for any sailboats, and that is really including sailboats that are designed for the ocean and much larger than what you propose to use. The Catalina 22 is NOT suitable for that kind of voyage. (Period or full stop).

An analogy might help.
What you propose is like saying you want your husband to peddle a kid's tricycle down a very busy highway that is known as being dangerous for cars and trucks for 3,000 miles with you riding on the back step of the tricycle with your infant child in a daypack on your back. It can be attempted, but at great risk to you and the child, no matter how much experience your husband has as a driver of cars or motorcycles on highways.

Simply put: The vehicle you have chosen is not suited for the task and to attempt it is foolish and dangerous to all involved.

-----------
Sometimes anecdotes help.
And here is an anecdote, based on my experience.
Once, while sailing down the Pacific coast going south from San Francisco, at night, the wind picked up and the seas were huge "Pacific swells" ( big waves). We were sailing with other boats in a race going towards LA. And it was difficult to steer the 40 foot ocean designed boat on the high winds, big seas, and we all were aware that the rocky coastline was dangerous and had no place for shelter.

A helicopter flew low over us at night, with its searchlight pointed down at the water. It was looking for another boat that had passed us earlier that night, a large boat. That boat had capsized and the crew was thrown from the boat. They were in need of rescue by the Coast Guard. They were experienced sailors on a large boat. It happens.

This experience gave me great respect for the Pacific, the California coastline, and the Coast Guard. It also made me appreciate that conditions on the coast can change rapidly and the seas and wind combined can be very challenging, even for a well prepared, fully crewed boat of experienced sailors. It can turn nasty before you make your next safe harbor.

[Sevenseas55]

So to recap:
The boat I am looking at obviously isn't a good choice as I have been told
What would you all look towards?
As I mentioned earlier we are looking for inexpensive as we want to upgrade in the future to cross larger oceans if I do absolutely love sailing. This first adventure is to dive in without making a permanent decision only to find myself and our son just not enjoying it for long term. Boats we have been offered to lease are just too large for our family at this time so a more affordable smaller boat that we can purchase cash out is what we are aiming towards. Thank you for the honest replies
Oh and someone asked about what we plan on doing with the boat when we fly to Europe well we won't ship it we are planning on donating it to a local family in need who may use it as a fishing vessel

[a64pilot]

There is I believe a lot of logic in trailering the boat to Texas, the Gulf is a good place to learn in a small boat I believe, I have no experience with the West coast, but understand it is not nearly as small boat friendly.

From what I understand what your contemplating is a Graduate level trip, one that at my learning stage I would not contemplate, I plan on making such journeys, but In a couple of more years when I have several thousand more miles experience

[MarkJ]

its fine to always believe anyone giving information on the internet is wrong, and some of the rude forum people are wrong...

But...


4 people just died in a boat far bigger than the one you are talking about. A single father killed his 3 teenage children because he was wrong.

Last year a beautiful 6 year old girl died because the rescue ship couldnt get to her in the night and she died in her daddys arms of cold during the night as he trod water waiting for rescue.

Just 2 or 3 years ago one of the Big Mouths of this forum left California close to the route you suggest and nearly killed his 18 month old baby... And his wife.

So, even though this is the internet, and a forum of some grumpy sounding dudes, please, please, please understand when EVERY post condemns your suggestion, even Moderators posts, then you would be well advised to take us seriously.

You really need a bigger boat and a depth of experience before you risk the lives of children who have no say in the matter.

Death aint an adventure.





Mark

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by Sevenseas55

I've been left with the task of looking for possible boats and the owner informed me this vessel could do our proposed trip.

The owner who is trying to sell you his own boat?? Seriously??

Go to YouTube and look at videos of the conditions that you could face then imagine yourself on a Catalina 22.

Better yet, tell the owner that you want him to sea trial his very suitable boat with you in those conditions. Wonder what he will say?

You have been given solid reasons why this boat should not be considered for this trip. If your husband is as experienced as you believe he will not choose a Catalina 22.

If he does, please consider leaving your child ashore. You and your husband have a choice. The child doesn't.

Here is perhaps a better idea given your lack of skill/experience. Fly to Florida and buy a Catalina 27/30 or similar to cruise the Florida Keys and Bahamas.

Or, if it must be the Caribbean, fly to St. Thomas, buy a 30' boat and begin your cruise there.

These options are not without risk but they are far less risky than what you propose.

[Sevenseas55]

Steady hand
I AM LOOKING AT THE BOATS
My husband is NOT here with me and has NO phone reception to answer what you all basically call STUPID questions. I would like you to solve the Big Bang theory with absolutely no questions and no experience.
As I have stated before the seller has obviously exaggerated the capability of this boat to me. I will not be purchasing a boat until my husband returns I just truly believed the seller and that this would be "the one" obviously it's not. So if everyone can just stop telling me this boat is crap, because I get it already really I do, can we move forward and reply with ports and routes because I am interested in other families and their suggestions.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by skipmac

. . . Just because one is close to the coast does not impart safety to the boat and crew. In fact, on the CA and Mexican coast it is quite the opposite. In sections it can be a long distance between safe, accessible ports so a "coastal" cruise might be a week or more in a small boat. . . .

This is correct. Close to land is often actually the most dangerous possible place to be at sea. The U.S. Pacific coast is a rocky lee shore much of the way.

This trip is doable, but needs proper preparation including an appropriately seaworthy craft and appropriate skills of the crew.

[Sevenseas55]

Thank you mark and sail power I will look into those suggestions! I definitely do not want my child at risk however my husband raised four very young children aboard sail boats so I trust him fully with his capabilities. I am a strong woman, I learn quickly with hands on experiences and have been on boats my whole life, however I never sailed them and was maybe 6 times a year. We are not just a family that saw this on YouTube and said "we can do it" and as I said although we have been looking for a boat I am just beginning to plan routes.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Sevenseas55

Oh and someone asked about what we plan on doing with the boat when we fly to Europe well we won't ship it we are planning on donating it to a local family in need who may use it as a fishing vessel

Even donating a boat is difficult. You need to pay import duty into the country just to give it away! (Unless you get it back to the USA). So if a countries duty is 30% they will calculate it on the value they think the boat is worth
So it can be crazy.

Other difficulty of the donate idea is that you wont put on all the expensive safety geer if you know youre giving it away. I know that sounds crazy too!

You are doing the right thing asking questions It will help you get to a good idea.

BTW Panama Canal costs, if they allow your boat at all...

$1,200 plus in order to complete a transit in this timeframe yachts are required to have a minimum speed of 8 knots. If a yacht can not meet this minimum speed and can therefore not make the lockage with the commercial ship, there will be additional charges incurred which are included in the buffer fee.

These are:
Transit pilot delay: $471.00
Launch services: $364.00
Mooring: $55.00
Total: $890.00


If the boat can not do more than 4.5knots you need a tug. The cost of a Panama Canal tug is between $145 and $1650 per hour depending on the circumstances.
The tug would be needed for about 20 hours, i think.

Panama Canal doesnt want small boats.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sevenseas55

Thank you mark and sail power I will look into those suggestions! I definitely do not want my child at risk however my husband raised four very young children aboard sail boats so I trust him fully with his capabilities. I am a strong woman, I learn quickly with hands on experiences and have been on boats my whole life, however I never sailed them and was maybe 6 times a year. We are not just a family that saw this on YouTube and said "we can do it" and as I said although we have been looking for a boat I am just beginning to plan routes.

OK, good for you. Don't be discouraged -- just build this plan one step at a time. People here have a wealth of knowledge and will help you.

A word of encouragement -- a long distance cruise like this is an incredible adventure, the adventure of a lifetime, and worth working on to make it a reality. It is not unrealistic at all for a family like yours to do it, but it will take some preparation. It can be done for a fairly modest amount of money, but not for $2000, so you will need to be realistic about that as well.

In my opinion your best bet is a modest older but sturdy ocean-going cruising boat -- something like a Pearson 365, say, but there are very many boats which would be suitable. Something like this can be found for modest money, but you also have to be very careful with project boats, as the cost of getting them into reasonable condition can exceed what they will be worth afterwards several times over.

Read and study, and best of all, get to know a sailor in your area who will take you out so you can get a feel of what it's like to be at sea.

[mrichmon]

In order to help build up an understanding of what is needed in a sailboat used for an extended cruise you might want to read "The Voyager's Handbook: The Essential Guide to Blue Water Cruising Hardcover" by Beth Leonard. This book gives a good overview of things that should be factored into your planning.