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Old 13-07-2016, 11:45   #46
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

You didn't read the post, I don't think it was helpful, I do not take it as a serious post
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:50   #47
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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You didn't read the post, I don't think it was helpful, I do not take it as a serious post
Yes I do believe there was some small degree of sarcasm at play.

Seriously, I think the intent with most members posting here (it is for me) is not necessarily to discourage the trip but to completely discourage the idea of making it with a Catalina 22.
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Old 13-07-2016, 12:12   #48
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Consider reading Hans Habeck's account of his milk run circumnavigation with wife and small child in an (unsinkable) Etap 21i incl. a 2.5HP OB. They made it allright, but they didn't enjoy the trip at all: they were terrified all the way and suffered many hardships.... So unless you are into this for some kind of bucket-list achievement, which is okay of course, think carefully why you need to do it in this way, because it won't be any FUN whatsoever.
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Old 13-07-2016, 13:28   #49
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Obviously from someone who does not sail. Clearly wrong and borders on ignorant slamming.
Obviously from someone who does not know me, and therefore hasn't got a clue. Clearly IS wrong and IS ignorant slamming.

Yeah. Sure. Small boats have sailed oceans. Big deal. Has a family of three, including an infant. Sailed a Catalina 22 from California, through the Panama Canal, and across the Gulf of Mexico? No.

Luckily, the OP has already come to the realization that this is NOT the right boat for this sort of journey.
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Old 13-07-2016, 14:11   #50
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Sometimes we forget that our experience with a subject is not universal. Sometimes a person joins CF to learn something and sometimes the questions asked may seem different from the intent in asking.

From the the get go... there was a lot of scoffing and name calling of "troll" which incidentally will get moderator attention, and yet in the wash we see a person asking an important question that matters to them.

Is it not better to give a detailed rationale as to why the outlined plan might have a few flaws in it rather than call someone stupid and demoralise them? If parents did that to their kids then a lot more problems would exist than do.

Is the boat the wrong boat? yes.
Can the journey be done in a small boat? yes.. give marques.
Is more experience necessary for the proposed cruising area? yes... give reasons.
Does the OP know all the costs involved? no--- help them understand.

Its simple really... CF is about helping people go boating...

I hope.

(And yes, I have had a bad day when I have let rip at someone and Ive regretted it ever since..)

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Old 13-07-2016, 16:11   #51
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Gosh, it is all resolved, and I have not yet determined how a trip down the Pacific coast from San Francisco (or even San Diego) to Panama is going to be safer, and perhaps require less skill, than cross a major ocean or two. I keep learning after over 60 years of sailing.
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Old 13-07-2016, 17:22   #52
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

G'Day Sevenseas,

I believe that I was the first responder to accuse you of being a troll. Many posts later, I'm convinced that I was wrong,and that it was just an incredibly ingenuous question. I apologize for the accusation.

By now I think you can understand how inappropriate the Cat 22 would be for your proposed voyages, and why many of us found the proposal beyond serious consideration, and answered perhaps unkindly but with your best interests at heart.

There have been a lot of good suggestions as to how you and your family might proceed in your sailing adventures. Most of them pointed out your need for a lot more sailing experience as a family before even attempting to plan a major voyage. You (and I'm suspecting your husband as well) don't have the knowledge base to evaluate the suggestions that you are given. There are literally dozens of threads here on CF that address the kind of questions that will arise as you start actually sailing (as you must). Please avail yourself of the search function and spend some hours reading the archived contributions that have accumulated over the years. If they don't satisfy you, then ask us, but meanwhile, as they say in courtroom dramas "question already asked and answered!".

BTW, long ago I owned one of the very first Cat-22s ever built, and sailed it with wife and two young children in the SF Bay and environs. Raced and cruised extensively for seven years in that boat, and even did some carefully and conservatively planned coastal cruises as well as a month long cruise in the Canadian Gulf islands. So, I have a very good first hand idea of the limitations of the design, and this is why my initial reaction was so strong!

I hope that you and your family will find a way to realize your ambitions, and that you can do so safely and with the great pleasure that such things have brought me.

Jim
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Old 13-07-2016, 17:49   #53
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

I wonder if they'd be willing to take out an Life insurance policy with me as the beneficiary. At least someone can get something out of this.

I don't believe any of you are going to be able to convince her that she doesn't have the experience to do this. And taking a 60 year old(I'm 67) and an infant with her is crazy, bat shat crazy.

But she won't listen. I guess we can all just wait for the news reports when they come in.

I have a 19 foot West Wight Potter, just slightly smaller than a Catalina 22. My boat really has sailed across oceans. The people who did it were nutz.

But even if you find a bigger boat(and knowing and having friends whose boats hit stuff that wasn't supposed to be in the water), I wouldn't even consider crossing anything like that in a fiberglass boat, I'd want a steel or aluminum hull.

But even if you buy the boat, you will still need double that amount for fix up and gear. The fact that you don't understand this is unbelievable. My WWP19 was in perfect condition, when I purchased it at $7K. I have spent nearly another $7K for gear running everything from clothing and new PFD's to new outboards, new standing rigging, etc. You will also need a satellite phone(EPIRB), dry suits for everyone(I doubt they make them for infants), as well as an exposure suit too. You will need a life raft for when the boat sinks. You will need old back up sails, and back ups for lots of things. But you have no money to spend(or very little) for this adventure or terror.

What would I use in a small boat---a Pacific Seacraft could do it--- they are about 28 feet long. But you are taking a small child. Apparently you have never raised a child. Having raised two of them and having on land had sudden life threatening illnesses jump up out of nowhere, you are putting your child in life threatening danger just by taking him along. You better hope that no one reports you to Children's Services where you live, because if they do, you may be charged with child endangerment.

To do this safely you need at least $40,000 in disposable income and a lot of luck. Unfortunately, Murphy's Law was made for sailing. Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong. Its certainly been that way for me.
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Old 13-07-2016, 18:15   #54
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

There is a 30 ft Bristol posted in the classifieds on this forum 7/9/16 that is free except for paying yard fees and then needing to transport it somewhere and get it into water.

URL="http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f152/1971-30-bristol-sailboat-169212.html"
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Old 13-07-2016, 18:16   #55
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

"There is just so so so much here that is just unbelievable"
I'd put your post at the top of that list Zed"pass-on-by".
Child services ??? Really. I was relieved that nobody else had gone there but you went'n'done it. Could you be less helpful...

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Old 13-07-2016, 18:22   #56
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Originally Posted by Sevenseas55 View Post
My husband and I both go on this site under this name, my husband has the experience. We are not crossing major oceans we are staying along the coastline and then will fly to Europe. I posted this thread in search of advice for stops along the way that others have enjoyed with family. Not looking for criticism and I understand this is the "internet". My husband has plenty of experience however myself I do not so I am hoping to hear what other families or couples have done and recommend. I trust my husbands advice 100% however with our son being with us I would just like to hear successful routes other families have done.
A couple of months ago a Polish follow just finished sailing around the whole world in a 22 ft sailboat. If you're just puddle jumping along the shore line in sight of land and your husband has some experience sailing, then don't worry about it. Everyone is worried about the baby for good reason. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Just stay tuned to the weather and don't take any big chances. Have fun
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Old 14-07-2016, 01:14   #57
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Hi SevenSeas,

It is not your fault for being misled about the capabilities of the Cat 22 and it's suitability for your plans.

I think the timing of your post has a lot to do with the negative replies here. As others have mentioned, a family of four recently lost their lives on a coastal hop in Florida. This tragedy touched a lot of members on this forum. Search for the related post here on CF, have a read and you'll understand better why others are discouraging you.

Crewing on another boat may be a better option for your family though it may me difficult to find passage with your infant child. There is a great "Crew Wanted" section in this forum with various criteria required.

As others have suggested, browse through the posts here to get a better idea of what's involved in your quest. There is a fantastic wealth of knowledge on this site and many, many generous members willing to share their experiences.

Cheers,

John
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Old 14-07-2016, 04:43   #58
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

SevenSeas -

The planning can be a lot of fun, so don't be discouraged about that. Enjoy it!

While you are planning, get out on the water and get experience any way you can! Inland lake, or bay sailing is a great place to start. Work your way up sailing in a wide variety of conditions - windy, calm, hot, cold, big waves, etc. With some experience the boat selection part of your planning will be much easier.

Some others here may disagree, but I suggest your try do some racing too. This will help make sure you really thoroughly understand the sailing and how to handle a boat. (To go cruising you must be able to handle the boat yourself while you husband is sleeping, or in case of emergency.) I believe racing helps uncover areas where you need to improve your skills.

When you can't get out on the water, do some reading. Here's one suggestion...

World Cruising Essentials : The Boats, Gear, and Practices That Work Best at Sea by Jimmy Cornell
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Old 14-07-2016, 05:05   #59
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

I realize you are not planning to cross oceans but coastal hop but I must agree with those who question your choice of boat. Cruising the coast down to the canal requires some multi day passages and a 22 is just too small for that to be comfortable. I suggest at least a 26 with a wide design and draft of 5' or less. After the canal you can daysail coastal jumps Central America and the US Gulf coast. You might begin with a chart book and a compass and plan a route. Assuming 50 miles/day or less you will get a feel for what will actually be involved in your project. Then you can shop for a boat with better definition of your requirements.
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Old 14-07-2016, 05:11   #60
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Originally Posted by Rorzech View Post
A couple of months ago a Polish follow just finished sailing around the whole world in a 22 ft sailboat.
I'd bet it was not a Catalina 22. There are a wide variety of different kinds of 22 foot boats. There are 22 foot boats that can cross oceans, and there are 22 foot boats that shouldn't even try to cross Lake Erie. The Catalina 22 is not just a small boat, it is a very lightweight, and lightly-built, boat that has minimal ballast and neither the tankage nor stowage for any extended passage.

The problem is not that it is a 22 foot boat. The problem is the particular 22 foot boat. That, and the crew of one experienced sailor, one completely inexperienced crew, and a small baby.
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