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Old 13-07-2016, 09:41   #31
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Originally Posted by Sevenseas55 View Post
Steady hand
I AM LOOKING AT THE BOATS
My husband is NOT here with me and has NO phone reception to answer what you all basically call STUPID questions. I would like you to solve the Big Bang theory with absolutely no questions and no experience.
As I have stated before the seller has obviously exaggerated the capability of this boat to me. I will not be purchasing a boat until my husband returns I just truly believed the seller and that this would be "the one" obviously it's not. So if everyone can just stop telling me this boat is crap, because I get it already really I do, can we move forward and reply with ports and routes because I am interested in other families and their suggestions.
I never said you are stupid.
I said we can all be ignorant (not knowing), and I included myself in that too.

I believe most of the members here are willing to help anyone who wants to learn

I believe most here would agree that "there is no stupid question, only stupid answers."

What is apparent is that you do not have the experience or knowledge yet to choose a boat or a route appropriate for your proposed voyage.

So ask questions. And there is a wealth of information in these forums.

Good luck!
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Try Using Google Custom Search of CF.

This forum has countless comments on so many topics. I encourage you to try the Google Custom Search field found under the Search menu at the top menu bar shown if you are using a browser to view CF.

It is very easy and will usually give you many threads and comments to view, without waiting for answers. It is my favorite "Tool Tip" for CF.
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:44   #32
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

I don't think people are telling you the boat is junk, it's not junk, just it is completely inappropriate for your intended use. A VW bug was a wonderful automobile, our first car, but it would be terrible for hauling concrete blocks, the little Catalina may be like that VW Bug?
I still think that if your comfortable living on a boat that size that trailering it to Texas or somewhere on the Gulf coast is not a bad idea, look up "Gunkholing" a small boat can get places most bigger ones cannot and that can be interesting and fun, there is more coast on the Gulf than you can see in I believe years, Gulf is far bigger than it looks like, it is in fact HUGE
But I believe you could get in a lifetimes worth of sailing and be close to a place to run if needed and close to help if needed, but it is big enough to get in over your head quickly too, it's no child's playground.
I'm learning what I am doing in the Gulf, so far three years and maybe 5 or 6 thousand miles and I think next year we will be ready to expand beyond the Gulf after we both stop working and retire.


I think most members are concerned for you and your child's safety, there are many people who say "Just do it" but sometimes we worry, especially when Children are involved, many of us are older, are Grandparents and when you age you become more concerned with Children
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:59   #33
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

My wife and I just spent the last year sailing from Southern CA to La Paz and then further north into the Sea of Cortez. We have a 36' brewer designed offshore sailing vessel. My advice as to your dream of sailing that same voyage in a 22' catalina is DONT!

The section from Ensenada to Cabo is 900 miles of lee shore with only a handful of safe anchorages. Enroute we saw winds to 35knots and seas 12-16'...not terrible conditions...but enough that our 36' vessel was kicked around pretty good...I shudder to think about that same trip in a lightweight 22' Catalina.
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:18   #34
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Originally Posted by Sevenseas55 View Post
My husband and I both go on this site under this name, my husband has the experience. We are not crossing major oceans we are staying along the coastline and then will fly to Europe. I posted this thread in search of advice for stops along the way that others have enjoyed with family. Not looking for criticism and I understand this is the "internet". My husband has plenty of experience however myself I do not so I am hoping to hear what other families or couples have done and recommend. I trust my husbands advice 100% however with our son being with us I would just like to hear successful routes other families have done.
You would be risking life and limb by sailing in anything other than protected waters. 2-3 ft chop and 20 kts on the nose for a few hours would likely be a quite handful let alone more wind and waves. I consider myself an average sailor even though I've been at it for 35 yrs, and sailed oceans, sounds and bays. Having said that, I wouldn't give such a plan even remote consideration.
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:29   #35
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Hi Sevenseas,

First, Steadyhand is a really nice guy and was just trying to help. If it looked like he was being rude it was not his intention.

Also, we are all boaters here, most have similar dreams and aspirations to yours and all had to start somewhere. I am absolutely certain not a single person on this forum was born an expert sailor. We all had to learn and ask questions and we are happy to try to help a new sailor into the fold.

I really, really applaud your motivation to make this trip and your visit to this forum to ask for advise. Aside from an occasional (expletive deleted) most members are friendly, helpful and sincerely have your best interests at heart. And please forgive those that accuse you of being a troll. It does happen pretty regularly and it's sometimes difficult to separate the real from the BS.

I think you asked clarification about coastal in the Pacific. Two main issues. First, it can be many, many miles between ports so you may be "coastal" IE close to the coast but at the same time very far away from a safe refuge. At sea it doesn't matter how close to land you are, it matters how far you are from a safe harbor. Also you should understand that in a bad storm some safe harbors may be inaccessible due to giant waves crashing at the entrance to the harbor blocking the entrance. Sometimes giant waves crash at the harbor because of a storm hundreds of miles away that you don't even know is there, still making the harbor inaccessible.

The second issue is the Pacific is not always peaceful. You can frequently encounter very strong winds which can sometimes come up quickly. If that happens to you far from a port then you're stuck in whatever comes.

Regarding the Catalina 22. Size does matter in some ways. A smaller boat bounces around much more in just moderate waves. A smaller boat is more sensitive to strong winds. A smaller boat carries less water, less food, less storage in general and a small boat will start to seem even smaller after a few weeks on board with two others. Even so, a small boat could make this trip but the Catalina 22 is not the one to pick. It is light weight, lightly built and designed for lakes and protected waters. I think it would almost certainly fall apart if you encountered a serious storm at sea.

I think it would be good for you to try to walk before you run. California is a tough place to learn. It might be much easier to look for a boat on the east coast. The market on the east coast is loaded with boats and small boats can often be had for nothing or just the cost of paying overdue storage. Just be careful buying a cheap boat. Sometimes the cheapest boat is the most expensive, meaning you could spend way more fixing up a cheap boat than you would spend buying a better boat that needs less fixing.
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:32   #36
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Ant Stewart circumnavigated on a 19ft open boat, Tania Aebi in a 26ft'er. The size is not quite so critical as the boat choice/design.
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:49   #37
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
. . .
I still think that if your comfortable living on a boat that size that trailering it to Texas or somewhere on the Gulf coast is not a bad idea, look up "Gunkholing" a small boat can get places most bigger ones cannot and that can be interesting and fun, there is more coast on the Gulf than you can see in I believe years, Gulf is far bigger than it looks like, it is in fact HUGE . . .
Yes! That's a really good option. One way to solve this problem is to find a boat which suits the intended voyage, as several have been suggesting. Another equally valid way is the other way around -- find a voyage to suit the intended boat.

The great thing about a boat like the Cat 22 is that it can be TRAILERED. A fantastic way to see a lot of different places is to trailer a smaller boat around. It's much faster and cheaper to get there by land.

I used to do this myself and had a great time.
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:10   #38
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

I had a Catalina 22 for a few years. Really liked the boat. Sailed it on SF Bay, trailered it up to The Delta, sailed it there, trailered it up to Clear Lake for summers, sailed it on the Bay during the winters. After a few years trailering got tiresome, so we bought a Catalina 25 and sailed that for 13 years: The Bay, to and from The Delta, the ocean to and from Monterey. In 1998 we bought our current boat. A friend sailed his identical boat from Vancouver, BC to Mexico, trucked it back. Catalinas are great boats, but for your intended cruise, you need to research other manufacturers are more sturdy boats.

Quote:
And, he didn't give you any guidance about type and size of boat? And then the owner of a totally inappropriate boat told you it would be just fine for the trip. And you believed him.
Lots of validity in this post. While your husband may be out of phone contact, I'm surprised you didn't have a chat before he left.

You could start sailing on SF Bay in a C22 and start learning to sail, then work your sailing knowledge and boat knowledge up to where you can begin to make informed decisions. That doesn't happen overnight, nor in a boating forum.

There are a few good books out there, too, that could help. Beth's is one of them.

Good luck.
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:11   #39
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Lesser boats have gone round the world. In any event, the Caribbean is very very rough. 25-30 knot winds on the nose when you leave the canal. Not sure you boat can punch through that crud. Might be way easier to just go west with the trades. Arrange a haul and trailer from beginning of Suez to the Med. Then proceed westwards. You will not be able to get up the Suez on your own nor would it be advisable to go south around Africa. Once in the Med, take a canal up through France and then hop across the channel to depraved England. That way you get to see most of the world, you are on the Milk run for the most part, and its mostly downhill; which is good for a little boat.Trolling optional.
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:17   #40
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Hi Sevenseas,
Going small is not as much the problem as what smaller boat you select. A smaller boat is challenge enough w/o it being the wrong tool for the job and there are other boats available in the same price range that represent a better choice then the Catalina. There is among other SF craigslist choices a Contessa 26 w/o a mast available for very cheap. With careful inspection (it was dismasted) and some hustle this would be a much better boat.
With a few notable exceptions just about all of the the long small boat voyages have been executed by very experienced sailors so please take some time to develop skills. You have an excellent training ground in SF bay. If you can work up to a trip outside around the Faralons (excuse my mispellings) you will gain enormously in open ocean experience. Maybe someon on the forum would be willing to take you out on the bay. WOULD I were home It would be a pleasure to do so.
Best wishes PM me if you would like to stay in touch.
Chris

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Old 13-07-2016, 11:46   #41
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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See, the thing is that NO ONE has done this, successfully, in such a small boat. NO ONE!

That's why you are not getting the simple answers that you wanted.

I wish you good luck, but I fear for what might happen if you actually try to do this.
I have seen lighter boats then a Catalina 22 turn up here in Panama from California but non had infants on board. A friend of mine single handed his Wharram 22 from England to New Zealand to visit his girlfriend, but a little Wharram catamaran is a far more seaworthy vessel then any 22' monohull.
That said, it may be possible for your husband to single hand down to here then well into the Caribbean but you and your child are a liability in so small a vessel. The Catalina is simply too short and slow to make the short hops in a timely manner and stores for longer periods at sea are sufficiently weighty that they make the situation worse. I suggest, as others have, that you have the wrong tool for the job. I have here in Panama an excellent Cal 34 with a near new Yanmar etc for only $8000 and I have no doubt such boats also are available in USA at similar prices. If your budget does not extend to that you have no place even considering voyaging, it is not free, or even cheap.
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:55   #42
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
See, the thing is that NO ONE has done this, successfully, in such a small boat. NO ONE!

That's why you are not getting the simple answers that you wanted.

I wish you good luck, but I fear for what might happen if you actually try to do this.
Obviously from someone who does not sail. Clearly wrong and borders on ignorant slamming. Plenty of smaller boats have gone round the world. Sailboats, rowboats, even rafts. As I recounted on another forum, we met a family of four on a cal 20 going round the world, and when we met them, they were half way there. So why do some folks without any knowledge of boating post to these boards?
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:57   #43
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Thank you Markj I was looking at the fees associated with the Panama crossing and I have not looked into the donating details but I will now.
Thank you Dockhead I will look into a Pearson or similar
And mrichmon thanks for the suggestion I have been looking for blogs on family sailing and living...as I said my husband has had his children aboard and has some experience in that but I still like to research and see what has been successful with other families. He never had any close calls but I do read the stories of families who have so I can understand what went wrong, what they did etc. just trying to over prepare on our side for any situation.
My husband may come home and get a good laugh that I even suggested a Catalina 22! But a good suggestion was asking someone to take us sailing so we will definitely do that and see how our son does.
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Old 13-07-2016, 12:34   #44
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

Don't let them discourage you! But first I think you need to do a few things. With a boat that size, seamanship will be critical. Let your husband take the boat out and do a trial run. As I doubt you can get insurance on the boat (due to it being singlehanded), take out insurance on your husband. Make sure he leaves in say July and stays a good 100-200 miles out especially along Baja and the Mexican Coast. With the strong steady winds he gets this time of year, he should be able to make really good time. He can visit Easter islands, the Galapagos, Macho Pichu, the tip of South America(which has some really great cruising grounds) and even swing by Antartica and see some penguins. (Happy feet) This way he doesn't have to spend the money for the Canal.

The second thing you do is file the insurance claim and get a really nice boat, with a professional skipper and crew. Or better yet just fly to Greece and charter.
Fair winds.
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Old 13-07-2016, 12:42   #45
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Re: Needing suggestions on sailing from California and ending somewhere in Europe

"Don't let them discourage you"? We're talking about three people, (two of whom have no sailing experience and one of which is a baby) taking a risky ocean voyage in a very small boat designed for day sailing on protected waters. None of us would be doing the OP a favor if we did anything except discourage her.
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