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Old 13-05-2015, 06:14   #46
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

I am really sorry to hear of your loss and agree that you need specialist advice.
One angle that you may want to raise with a solicitor is that if you have lived with your fiance for a time you may be seen legally as his common law wife. This could have a bearing on your position.

Kind regards,
Richard.
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:14   #47
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

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Originally Posted by boden36 View Post
I am really sorry to hear of your loss and agree that you need specialist advice.
One angle that you may want to raise with a solicitor is that if you have lived with your fiance for a time you may be seen legally as his common law wife. This could have a bearing on your position.
Kind regards,
Richard.
Common-law marriages do not exist in the UK.
Common law marriage - Family Lives
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:35   #48
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

Dear one,

I assume you feel extraordinarily sad for that all. Well, lawyers are properly of little scruples even on a professional basis, many claiming competency they hardly may have, mostly as to what pertains legacy & naval affairs.
Best is to resort to some senior family friend...

A few tips:
- you may either sell the boat, or keep and register it. as an unregistered item, it is like a piece of furniture... who has possession has ownership.
- the MCA is in Keen Road, Cardiff and you may register it for few tens GBP, under section 1, leisure boats. You need a witness proving your signature with copy of his ID document... may be the seller himself (dealer?) or any of your acquaintances.. no need of a pro! You will sign for 64/64 of it, and name her
- any heirs to your companion, should be able to prove not just his property (gone with him, since item is unregistered, in your hands...) but to prove his "credit" in case he may have spent money in the purchase, which seems not the case
- if you believe that his heirs (parents, brother/sister?) are mean people, better you move the boat where it can not be found out by them
- no will means that the deceased can not dispose of items not in his name. Why assuming that an unregistered item is in his legacy/estates!?!? He has not spent decades on that boat with family members or witnesses....

Wish you well for your future time.. sailing will distract you and soothe the pain
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:47   #49
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Acting like you own a boat which you really don't own is otherwise known as stealing.

Unfortunately, lots of people interpret the relevant laws intuitively. If you learn anything here, it's that you should seek competent counsel rather than that of Internet pseudo-lawyers.

My best guess as a retired administrative law judge is that you own 50% of the boat; the legal heir(s) own the remainder. You are likely not among the 'legal heir(s)' group.
in order to complete my answer, i subscribe to it in full.

.. except that, as you prove your payment (bank transfers speak out) you have a CREDIT towards the heirs for that full 50% in nominal value.
furthermore,... that 50% of boat is worth much less now as no one would buy it to share the boat with you (in principle!)...

thus, even though his heir(s) know of the boat, they have a negative value in their hands... a residual market value for half a boat LESS its full market value paid up, in half...

if in need to clarify position with his family, if they were knowledgeable, or with keys, ... or contacts with the seller, etc... you may immediately claim for the 50% share-purchase still unpaid by him/heir(s)
Btw...
the 50/50 share is a guess, but why so!? You paid 100%,maybe you wanted to give him1% of it.... have a friend who can witness it, in case.... :-)
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Old 13-05-2015, 07:56   #50
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

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in order to complete my answer, i subscribe to it in full.

.. except that, as you prove your payment (bank transfers speak out) you have a CREDIT towards the heirs of that full 50% in nominal value.
furthermore,... that 50% is worth much less now as no one would buy it to share the boat with you (in principle!)...

thus, even though his heir(s) know of the boat, they have a negative value in their hands... a residual market value for half a boat LESS its full market value paid up, in half...

if in need to clarify position with his family, if knowledgeable, with keys, contacts with the seller, etc... you may immediately claim for the 50% share still unpaid by him/heir(s)

the 50/50 share is a guess, but why so!? You paid 100%,maybe you wanted to give him1% of it.... have a friend who can witness it, in case.... :-)
I know I'm not the smartest person 'in the room' but I have no clue here what you are trying t say.

Successor ownership is not an intuitive judgment but rather a legal one.

It isn't helpful to the original poster to offer opinions other than to suggest she seek advice of counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
If we learn anything here, it is that asking for legal advice here is useless.
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Old 13-05-2015, 08:14   #51
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

@ ILLUSION

Lawyers may know processual, court practice, and judge behaviour, but in business i found them of little relevance, burdensome and ineffective, surely expensive.

I am just pointing out that the item is unregistered, so it is is up to heirs to claim for ownership.
Ownership is not necessarily a positive value! It comes with payment obligations (e.g. the purchase!), current maintenance costs incurred, and the value of time/activity devoted by Sue in keeping that tenure in good order.

It comes to plain evidence that she may claim for the full % of the purchase price for any % of ownership pretended by the heirs.

As I noted, it is a negative value to them, as a co-ownership is of lesser value in the market place.

No rocket science, even for lawyers...:-P

PS this is not a legal forum, but anyone answering may do that in good conscience, and Sue may decide by herself cum grano salis, after hearing to that common intelligence
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Old 13-05-2015, 09:09   #52
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

The other bit is to move onto the boat...You own it, act like you own it. Sorry for your loss.
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Old 19-05-2015, 00:11   #53
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

Thanks for all the comments. RYA legal have looked at the documentation and their advice is that we were joint owners and ownership passes to me.
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Old 19-05-2015, 02:12   #54
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

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Thanks for all the comments. RYA legal have looked at the documentation and their advice is that we were joint owners and ownership passes to me.
Yes. With joint ownership the ownership will pass to the remaining partner.

Cheers
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Old 19-05-2015, 05:07   #55
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

Good news suem, and thanks for letting us know.
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Old 19-05-2015, 05:36   #56
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

Congratulations on a good result.
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Old 19-05-2015, 06:01   #57
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your partner. Losing a loved one so suddenly is very hard. But over time, you will come to terms with it, Albeit only however in your own time, try not to let anyone dictate to you when they think you should be over it. Grief takes time to run its course, allow yourself that.

I hope you comes to terms with things in time.

Best regards

G
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Old 19-05-2015, 09:22   #58
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
@ ILLUSION

Lawyers may know processual, court practice, and judge behaviour, but in business i found them of little relevance, burdensome and ineffective, surely expensive.

I am just pointing out that the item is unregistered, so it is is up to heirs to claim for ownership.
Ownership is not necessarily a positive value! It comes with payment obligations (e.g. the purchase!), current maintenance costs incurred, and the value of time/activity devoted by Sue in keeping that tenure in good order.

It comes to plain evidence that she may claim for the full % of the purchase price for any % of ownership pretended by the heirs.

As I noted, it is a negative value to them, as a co-ownership is of lesser value in the market place.

No rocket science, even for lawyers...:-P

PS this is not a legal forum, but anyone answering may do that in good conscience, and Sue may decide by herself cum grano salis, after hearing to that common intelligence
If you have had this type of luck with attorney's then you need to hire better ones. I save more deals than I torpedo, and frankly the ones i torpedo shouldn't have been entered into in the first place.

Your advice however is horrific. Just because you may be able to get away with something doesn't make it either right, or legal. If this is emblematic of your business practices I would have fired you as a client. So perhaps the problem you have with attorneys is they have ethics which you seem to lack.
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Old 19-05-2015, 09:36   #59
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

We are talking about the law..... Right or wrong does not come into it. Lol. Fair is always a matter of opinion - usually self serving.

As OP seems to have satisfied herself that she is the 100% owner then ball is firmly in her court to defend that position by her actions (act like you own her - especially on getting her registered in sole name)....and then ball is firmly planted in the court of anyone who wants to dispute the facts on the ground..
...and for that they will need a lawyer, not just a dark night.
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Old 19-05-2015, 12:24   #60
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Re: My fiance died, who owns the boat?

In California, you can register a boat or car as "EITHER or "OR". In my case, if either my wife or I get end-of-life ill, the other can sell the boat and cars without having to get legal conservatorship.
Right now, at the tender age of 80, I'm intending to outlive our new sails.
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