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Old 11-04-2013, 18:59   #106
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

No worries. I should have used a coma to get my sarcastic remark across. Oh well.
I definitely give the benefit of the doubt to the parents. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the state would be a wasted effort.
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You're right. My mistake. I hastily assumed that you were saying Cuba did not make the list of countries with which we have an extradition treaty. A closer look shows that the list was of those countries we do NOT have an extradition treaty with, and Cuba is NOT on that list. Oops. Color me embarrassed.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:39   #107
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

I don't see anything they did before snatching the kids as making them unfit parents - nor afterwards! Indeed IMO the willingness to step up to the plate and risk life and liberty for the kids could be viewed as exactly the opposite!

That don't make them bright parents, nor even mean they are great ones - but that not a requirement (probably just as well for a few squillion!).

Of course could well be other reasons they are unfit to take care of the kids, just not made the news (as a bit too complicated to fit into a headline?).
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:23   #108
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

I'm starting to realize how OJ got off.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:29   #109
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

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Please correct me if I missed something. I was unable to find anything in any of the links that indicate any drug but Pot. If that is the criteria for child endangerment the state needs to get ready to place a few million more. Has the police record been made available yet? I continue to see nothing but inuendo.

As long as the system's machine only spoon feeds what they want you to believe I will assume the books are cooked. How do you tell if a politician is lying - lips are moving.

The synopsis for this could read; Engineer, veteran & father of two, along with his wife abandons all personal property and his country in a desperate attempt to regain his children wrongfully taken by the state. Taking nothing from their former life but the family dog, they fled the country in a small sailboat, runnig at night for safer shores.

It resembles "Sound Of Music". We don't know what really happened here and the authorities aren't talking. Remember, "inocent until proven guilty"
Get out of here with your common sense! It's not wanted here!
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:40   #110
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I'm starting to realize how OJ got off.
If your famous one can get away with murder... many do...
If your poor and no one your screwed... station in life is all important to so many...
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:21   #111
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

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I'm starting to realize how OJ got off.
OJ never "Got Off" - he was innocent .

I saw it on TV, so it must be true .
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:31   #112
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Their rights had been terminated by the Court. That is a very difficult procedure with a lot of protections for the parents. Also, the majority of those records would be sealed so we don't know all the reasons. In order to terminate that quick either the State had a VERY strong case or the parents voluntarily terminated. This is coming from an attorney that practices in the juvenile courts.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:42   #113
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coastalcowboy - before you get flogged at the mast of comment opinion - you are right. I practice for 30 years in domestic relations and all the presumptions are in favor of returning kids to parents, even very flawed parents. Look, the courts don't need more kids to find a home for, there are plenty of meth head parents to supply all the kids the courts can handle.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:46   #114
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

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Their rights had been terminated by the Court. That is a very difficult procedure with a lot of protections for the parents. Also, the majority of those records would be sealed so we don't know all the reasons. In order to terminate that quick either the State had a VERY strong case or the parents voluntarily terminated. This is coming from an attorney that practices in the juvenile courts.
OR . . . moving the kids to the grandparents was part of a temporary injunction brought by the state pending a more thorough & final adjudication. Either way, it would be a heavy burden for the state to meet under the laws of most states since there is generally a heavy presumption in favor of the parents. All that has likely changed at this point if both parents are looking at prison time.
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Old 12-04-2013, 17:14   #115
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

Hi, you guys with some legal knowledge,
http://www.cruisersforum.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
Thanks for letting us know how it works!

What would be helpful would be to know how the law draws the line between parents rights to their kids and their kids rights to nurturance and safety. Does it vary between States, or is there a nationwide guidline?

Anyhow, thanks for helping.

Ann
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Old 12-04-2013, 17:27   #116
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

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Their rights had been terminated by the Court. That is a very difficult procedure with a lot of protections for the parents. Also, the majority of those records would be sealed so we don't know all the reasons. In order to terminate that quick either the State had a VERY strong case or the parents voluntarily terminated. This is coming from an attorney that practices in the juvenile courts.
Have you anything to say before AAAHHH find you guilty - boy???

Without transparency, public record, I give it an even chance he pissed off a hill-billy cop.
"Trust me, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you".
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Old 12-04-2013, 17:34   #117
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Lack of "transparency" in the record is to preserve the child's rights. Reports were that rights were permanently terminated. This could only have happened by consent of parents or after a trial, which the parents would have had a right to have before a jury. Bottom line is, there simply is no way this could be a result of heavy handed government. I've practiced on this area of the law 20 years.
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Old 12-04-2013, 17:58   #118
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

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Lack of "transparency" in the record is to preserve the child's rights. Reports were that rights were permanently terminated. This could only have happened by consent of parents or after a trial, which the parents would have had a right to have before a jury. Bottom line is, there simply is no way this could be a result of heavy handed government. I've practiced on this area of the law 20 years.

Gee Sorry, I went to collage in Athens Ohio. We watched from upper floors of the engineering building as the riot cops shot out the windows with 50 cal wood bullets; shot unarmed FLEEING students in the back; and beat them with night sticks when they stumbled and fell. They blamed the windows on students, of course. This, two years after Kent State. They seemed to have a problem with hair touching the top of your ears in that town. TRUST & VERIFY ONLY. I could entertain you for a long time with tales of the local cops in Northern Ohio and the totally heavy-handed treatment solely for collecting fines. Followong that, we lived in southern Ohio (Ironton) near Kentucky the cops were just another arm of the tax collector. The sheriff was also a local union steward. you can only imagine how this conflict of interest played out. From my experience, there is no trust with secret trials, deals, pressure, threats, bribes. In back-woods land anything goes. Ironton was the little known "little Chicago" with the gambling and prostitution famously protected by the local judges and police during prohibition. In that part of the world TODAY the judges, police and other law enforcemnt are often related. No such thing as fair if they don't want it. Southern backwoods law can easily be the stuff of legend.
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Old 12-04-2013, 18:21   #119
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Re: Missing Children on Sailboat

I was in foster homes from about 1981 at about 11 years old for 4 years, in one home we smoked pot and stayed up late nights drinking hard liquor while the oldest boy was having sex with the foster mother, another home the foster father had a bad temper and hit a couple kids and broke things sometimes blaming us for the broken doors etc to the home director, and the last one that I'll mention was a very religious husband wife doo gooders foster home, mind you the home was a State funded home and we were forced to their church about 3 times weekly and coersed to convert. The foster mother used to talk to me about performing oral sex, she was having sex with this one boy in the home (there were 3 of us), he was in there because he was sexually abused by his family members and was a real emotional mess. I saw this boy about 10 years later selling his body on the streets of Buffalo, NY for crack cocaine.
I was a tough kid in group homes and detention centers so I never had any problems and only a few fights with fellow housemates although some were there for things like stabbing their school teachers etc. They let me out at 16 in 1985 because I became and expectant father, we had the child, then got married when I was old enough and had a second child. They are 27 and 24 both are sound adults with bachelors degrees and careers. We divorced years ago.
The reason my parents took me to court and New York State was awarded custody of me was because I ran awaw from home a couple times. My parents consulted a catholic charities counselor, this lady strongly suggested that I was headed in a bad direction and needed help greater than my parents could manage. My parents (mom and step dad) were dumb and are still dumb and ignorant, my natural father drank himself to death when I was 16 years old after meeting my firstborn child and after hitting on my wife (alchoholics and womanizing often go together).

Anyway, I have strong feelings for this young family and the foster care situation.
I feel for the dad, mom and children.
I also sense that the parents may have had a troubled youth, the family unity may be all that the parents have ever known and possibly the only stability they have ever known in their life.

I have felt feelings similar to this father.
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Old 12-04-2013, 19:42   #120
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