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Old 09-04-2013, 10:05   #31
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Re: missing children on sailboat

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Obviously you haven't seen the rap-sheet on the father. He clearly is an "actual career criminal."

I mean, for God's sake, he held a gun to his mother-in-law's head and threatened to kill her. Is that no big deal so long as he doesn't actually pull the trigger!?! I have to say that I'm really surprised by how many people are willing to give these losers a pass on their history of arrests and convictions.
Do you have access to his rap sheet and can post it here?
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:20   #32
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Re: missing children on sailboat

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The boys had been living since last year with their maternal grandparents, who were granted permanent custody Tuesday. Joshua Hakken lost custody of his sons last year after a drug possession arrest in Louisiana, and he later tried to take them from a foster home at gunpoint, authorities have said.
They lost custody of their children. Why it doesn't say. Having pot and legal guns and even being "anti-government" is not a reason to lose custody of your children, there must be more to it. This is from the original post article below.
Sounds to me like the parents might have some mental issues. Temporary custody is one thing, but a ruling for permanent custody is a different matter.

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Slidell police say were called to the hotel in June in reference to a disturbance involving Mr. and Mrs. Hakken. Police say when they arrived the parents were acting in a bizarre manner that alarmed officers.

Police say they were talking about “completing their ultimate journey” and were traveling across the country to “take a journey to the Armageddon.” Police say both of the children were present in the hotel at the time.

Police say based on the parents’ behavior and the fact narcotics and weapons were inside the hotel room, officers called the Office of Child Services, who determined the children were in danger and needed to be taken into custody and temporarily placed in a foster home.

"This is not really about anti-government at this point," said David Couvertier, FBI. "Individual beliefs, people in our country should believe in whatever you want to believe in. It's the manner in which the kids have been taken is what concerns law enforcement and the reason we've taken the steps we have taken."

Joshua Hakken was placed under arrest and charged with possession of marijuana, possession of drug paraphernalia, and the use of a controlled and dangerous substance in the presence of minors. Officers also took custody of the guns.

Two weeks later, police say they were notified Joshua Hakken had shown up at the foster family home with a firearm demanding the return of his children. The foster parents called 911 and police say Hakken fled without his children.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:25   #33
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Re: missing children on sailboat

Career idiot - yes. Career criminal - apparently not. I'm still betting on no extradition from Cuba.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:15   #34
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The stories I read cite him as a veteran, and electrical engineer. They state his trouble with the police STARTED in 2012 for possession of MJ, drug paraphernalia and Use of a Controlled and Dangerous Substance in the Presence of Minors.. He has 2 instances now trying to get his kids back both citing the presence of a firearm. I'm not clear if it was holstered on his belt or if it was used to threaten the foster parents and in-laws.

The police now are saying they don't know where the anti-gov't thing started. He does sound very conservative which maybe causes that statement?

I should note I'm not defending this man's actions they are clearly over the top. I just want facts that aren't media hype towards any political agenda on either side. This guy did some legwork and gives his opinion. Maybe he cherry picked a reasonable statement I don't know but it seems there is something I'm missing. Maybe it will come out later.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/04/04/lo...kens-said-they

"In response to overwhelming calls for information about the Florida couple who "abducted" their own children yesterday, the Slidell Police Department in Slidell, Louisiana, has issued a press release about the June 2012 arrest of Joshua Hakken and the confiscation of his children:

In June of 2012, Joshua and Sharon Hakken were staying at a local hotel in Slidell. The Slidell Police Department was called in reference to a disturbance involving Mr. and Mrs. Hakken. When police arrived, both Mr. and Mrs. Hakken were acting in a bizarre manner that alarmed officers. They were talking about “completing their ultimate journey” and were traveling across the country to “take a journey to the Armageddon”. Let it be noted that both of their children were present in the hotel room at the time.

Based off their behavior, and the fact that narcotics and weapons were located inside of the hotel room, officers contacted the Office of Child Services (OCS). OCS determined that the children were in danger and needed to be taken into custody by the State of Louisiana and temporarily placed in a foster home. Mr. Hakken was placed under arrest for Possession of Marijuana, Possession of Drug Paraphernalia, and the Use of a Controlled and Dangerous Substance in the Presence of Minors. Officers also took custody of several weapons for safe keeping.

Approximately two weeks later, Slidell Police were notified that Mr. Hakken had shown up to the foster family home (somewhere in Hammond, LA) with a firearm demanding the return of his children. The foster parents called 911, and Mr. Hakken fled without his children. We have heard nothing until yesterday. Slidell Police was contacted by the FBI and the authorities from Florida to inform us about the kidnapping. They requested any and all information that we had on the Hakken’s.

I asked the Slidell Police Department for Hakken's arrest report, and was told that it's being kept private because Hakken's drug charges are still pending. As I noted in an update a few minutes ago, the Slidell Police Department says the claim that Hakken was arrested at an "anti-government rally" simply isn't true, and they don't know where it came from.

Earlier today, the Tampa Bay Times reported that Hakken uses the name "SailingBull" on various message boards (he owns a sailboat, and he's a graduate of USF, which has a bull mascot). After looking through nearly all of Hakken's 190+ posts on the Kel-Tec Owner's Group, I got the impression of a normal guy with libertarian/Tea Party leanings. He posted about opposing the death penalty, the war on drugs, and the Patriot Act; about loving his wife and sons; and about his enthusiasm for sailing, firearms, and building a new grill in their backyard. The "Armageddon" line is particularly confusing seeing as Hakken appears to be a member of secularhomeschool.com, where, in 2010, he described himself as an atheist:

"I definitely plan on teaching about different religions to my children when it comes up in context of other studies: i.e. history, social studies, geography, philosophy... Right now we're in the pre-preschool phase so I've got time.

As far as teaching the dogma of any particular religion, I will probably limit my teaching of that in context with what / why people believe and how it has / will affect the actions of people.

Personally, I think every religion from Christianity to Athiesm is a plague. The notion that we can answer questions we have no knowledge base for is rediculous. While there may be redeeming lessons from a particular religion, most organized faiths have historically been used to shed personal responsibility while stripping the individual of personal rights and freedoms of it's congregation.
Religion does not teach moral value, the best it can accomplish is to coexist and not intrude on such values."

It's worth noting that law enforcement in Florida are painting the Hakkens as anti-government extremists at the same time police in Louisiana are describing them as death cultists. I suppose they could be both, but they could also be neither. "
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:37   #35
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Re: missing children on sailboat

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Originally Posted by sailcruiser View Post
The stories I read cite him as a veteran, and electrical engineer. They state his trouble with the police STARTED in 2012 for possession of MJ, drug paraphernalia and Use of a Controlled and Dangerous Substance in the Presence of Minors.. He has 2 instances now trying to get his kids back both citing the presence of a firearm. I'm not clear if it was holstered on his belt or if it was used to threaten the foster parents and in-laws.

The police now are saying they don't know where the anti-gov't thing started. He does sound very conservative which maybe causes that statement?

I should note I'm not defending this man's actions they are clearly over the top. I just want facts that aren't media hype towards any political agenda on either side. This guy did some legwork and gives his opinion. Maybe he cherry picked a reasonable statement I don't know but it seems there is something I'm missing. Maybe it will come out later.

Louisiana Police Claim Hakkens Said They Were "Taking a Journey to the Armageddon

"In response to overwhelming calls for information about the Florida couple who "abducted" their own children yesterday, the Slidell Police Department in Slidell, Louisiana, has issued a press release about the June 2012 arrest of Joshua Hakken and the confiscation of his children:

In June of 2012, Joshua and Sharon Hakken were staying at a local hotel in Slidell. The Slidell Police Department was called in reference to a disturbance involving Mr. and Mrs. Hakken. When police arrived, both Mr. and Mrs. Hakken were acting in a bizarre manner that alarmed officers. They were talking about “completing their ultimate journey” and were traveling across the country to “take a journey to the Armageddon”. Let it be noted that both of their children were present in the hotel room at the time.

Based off their behavior, and the fact that narcotics and weapons were located inside of the hotel room, officers contacted the Office of Child Services (OCS). OCS determined that the children were in danger and needed to be taken into custody by the State of Louisiana and temporarily placed in a foster home. Mr. Hakken was placed under arrest for Possession of Marijuana, Possession of Drug Paraphernalia, and the Use of a Controlled and Dangerous Substance in the Presence of Minors. Officers also took custody of several weapons for safe keeping.

Approximately two weeks later, Slidell Police were notified that Mr. Hakken had shown up to the foster family home (somewhere in Hammond, LA) with a firearm demanding the return of his children. The foster parents called 911, and Mr. Hakken fled without his children. We have heard nothing until yesterday. Slidell Police was contacted by the FBI and the authorities from Florida to inform us about the kidnapping. They requested any and all information that we had on the Hakken’s.

I asked the Slidell Police Department for Hakken's arrest report, and was told that it's being kept private because Hakken's drug charges are still pending. As I noted in an update a few minutes ago, the Slidell Police Department says the claim that Hakken was arrested at an "anti-government rally" simply isn't true, and they don't know where it came from.

Earlier today, the Tampa Bay Times reported that Hakken uses the name "SailingBull" on various message boards (he owns a sailboat, and he's a graduate of USF, which has a bull mascot). After looking through nearly all of Hakken's 190+ posts on the Kel-Tec Owner's Group, I got the impression of a normal guy with libertarian/Tea Party leanings. He posted about opposing the death penalty, the war on drugs, and the Patriot Act; about loving his wife and sons; and about his enthusiasm for sailing, firearms, and building a new grill in their backyard. The "Armageddon" line is particularly confusing seeing as Hakken appears to be a member of secularhomeschool.com, where, in 2010, he described himself as an atheist:

"I definitely plan on teaching about different religions to my children when it comes up in context of other studies: i.e. history, social studies, geography, philosophy... Right now we're in the pre-preschool phase so I've got time.

As far as teaching the dogma of any particular religion, I will probably limit my teaching of that in context with what / why people believe and how it has / will affect the actions of people.

Personally, I think every religion from Christianity to Athiesm is a plague. The notion that we can answer questions we have no knowledge base for is rediculous. While there may be redeeming lessons from a particular religion, most organized faiths have historically been used to shed personal responsibility while stripping the individual of personal rights and freedoms of it's congregation.
Religion does not teach moral value, the best it can accomplish is to coexist and not intrude on such values."

It's worth noting that law enforcement in Florida are painting the Hakkens as anti-government extremists at the same time police in Louisiana are describing them as death cultists. I suppose they could be both, but they could also be neither. "
thanks for the reasearch

things like over zealous authoraties and american vetran pushed to the limit come to mind.

hell if recreational pot use and anti government sentiments were a critera that governed bringing up your own children,25% of the parents in the uk would be seen as unfit!

having a firearm however would get you locked up immediatly for quite a long time
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:48   #36
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Re: missing children on sailboat

Just saw them and the boat on CNN where a reporter there happened to have been when they arrived. The reporter said the police were thick around the boat and they were ordered to turn the cameras off. Boat looks pretty scratched up in the footage, but you could see one of the kids scrambling around the cockpit like kids do--looked pretty normal from a distance. Hopefully, whatever happens and whatever the true story the kids will end up in a place they are well taken care of.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:49   #37
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thanks for the reasearch

things like over zealous authoraties and american vetran pushed to the limit come to mind.

hell if recreational pot use and anti government sentiments were a critera that governed bringing up your own children,25% of the parents in the uk would be seen as unfit!

having a firearm however would get you locked up immediatly for quite a long time
It could be a bit of both. I still don't get the choice of Cuba but...who knows. From what I have read his firearm was legal. (Note no firearms charges are cited and would be if it wasn't.)

Maybe he will release a statement from Cuba. I feel for the guy losing his children but it sounds like he didn't want to go through legal channels to get them back. I suspect they lost custody after the first attempt at getting them back. I can't see a judge looking favorable on showing up with a firearm demanding his children back.

I just don't know if it's a case of a lunatic waving a firearm demanding children or showing up with a holstered weapon knocking on the door. Both are poor choices but one is different from the other and can be described similarly leaving the imagination to fill in the blanks. Showing up with a firearm is just too vague to guess but definitely not a good idea either way.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:51   #38
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Hopefully, whatever happens and whatever the true story the kids will end up in a place they are well taken care of.
Exactly.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:16   #39
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Re: missing children on sailboat

I think this man could have changed his life and decided he wanted his kids back. I can understand. Even though I have tons of flaws my kids are still the most important things in my life. If he is a good professional he should find work. I wish him luck.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:17   #40
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Re: missing children on sailboat

> I still don't get the choice of Cuba
Very close to US waters, have a grudge against US, therefore unlikely to budge to diplomatic pressure. Ecuador and Venezuela are a bit too far away, and don't have any upsides compared to Cuba, really.

The guy may or may not be insane, but escaping to Cuba is not an insane choice per se.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:31   #41
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Application for citizenship for the family.. name change... the worlds their oyster...
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:36   #42
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Re: missing children on sailboat

I get the funny feeling that the facts are under-reported. I tend to lean towards the parents. Vet pushed too far and he's seen the government at work. Where are these parents going to get a fair trial? Basicly, there was no trial and very little in the way of charges. It all smacks of child protective services lefty do-gooder over reacted. It is clear the guy is not your average idiot. Not just anyone could plan to recoup their confiscated children, abandon their lives and property, navigate to beyond US reach. You may not agree with them but so far, thought control is not in our constitution. If pot smoking, now sort of legal many places, was just cause to take children then the state would not know what to do with them. As noted above, the guns were legal. So does that mean the children were taken 'cause Dad had a joint and they were talking funny?

More to this than meets the eye. Not ready to pass judgement.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:52   #43
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Re: missing children on sailboat

What about the mother. Why all the focus on the father? I have met many worse parents than this.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:54   #44
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Likely told the cops to FO.... uniforms don't take kindly to that... anywhere..
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Old 09-04-2013, 13:10   #45
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Re: missing children on sailboat

Mom appears to be right in step with dad ,another reason to believe that they might be flawed but not crazy. Not the way I would have a reunion, but I am not there.
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