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Old 15-03-2013, 08:28   #16
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

Problem solved.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-2a-96138.html

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Old 15-03-2013, 12:38   #17
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

I would go to look into areas that have many samples of what you want in the walking range. Look up as many as you can on the same trip.

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Old 15-03-2013, 12:56   #18
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

I would do this: Ask the owner or broker some penetrating questions. It's the "why, why, why, why, why" method. Each why gets you closer to the real truth. Also, tell them you need to travel to look at the boat and ask them various questions regarding the condition; Like: "how would you rate the upholstery on a scale of 1-10?", "Do you feel I could hop in the boat after purchasing it and motor 300 miles up the ICW to get it home?" "Regarding the sails, is the stitching worn, grommets corroded? Stains?" etc. When you get owners to talk enough, things seem to come out.
For instance, I noticed when looking at small cabin cruisers that many ads said "rebuilt engine" or "low hours". I found when asking detailed questions like "do you have receipts for the engine work?" I got answers like, "No, but the previous owner said his dad had rebuilt it"... haha
Also, if a Broker is involved, you can ask him to go to the boat at his convenience and call you from the boat. Then have him walk around and give you details to questions like: "when you walk around looking at the deck gel coat, is it shiny glossy or real powdery looking? How would you rate it on a scale of 1-10?"
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Old 15-03-2013, 13:15   #19
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

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Originally Posted by Usagi View Post
Do you have any other ideas I've missed?

Thanks
1) Don't look at boats in this price range that have been on the market more than a week or so (or month... depends on the market in the area).

2) Lower whatever equipment standards you currently have, and shop your local markets. Be patient, prudent, and prepared

3) Consider a different plan that includes buying a much newer boat

4) If you plan to travel like this often, consider trading in for a small RV-type vehicle that provides heat (if you will be shopping in Spring or Fall) and a berth. The main problem here is that most of these on the market in the US are grossly overpowered and very expensive to drive long distances.

I don't know what your discount is, but I use Priceline and Hotwire almost exclusively. Sometimes it takes more effort than it is worth (for me), but it very definitely will save you the price of a few very nice meals.
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Old 15-03-2013, 13:25   #20
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

Not sure what your plan is - buy a boat and then give up working?, or move it back "home"? (Note: I have no idea where your locale is - or whether it is even on the coast!, and am too lazy to google!).......if the plan is to move her back home then your buying costs will likely pale in comparison to the re-location costs, especially if relying on others to help get her "going home ready"........if the plan is to quit work straight after boat buying maybe you want to quit first instead!, then head to a boat rich environment and rent somewhere cheap ashore (that is not a Hotel) for a month or so - to give you a lot of time to buy carefully.
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Old 16-03-2013, 03:51   #21
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

DOJ -- My plan is quite flexible but this thread is helping to congeal the plan. I have some legal issues in the process at the moment and I am hoping to get settlements soon on those. They are holding me up as much as not having quite enough money saved yet. I have about $14K saved so far. I think the best idea is to get to about $20K saved which will take me about 6 months. Legal settlements could add quite a bit to that.

Then I'll quit my job and buy a small camper/trailer. I can pack up what I hope to take cruising with me (keyboard, guitar, bunnies and a few other things) and travel from place to place looking at boats until I find one that really strikes my fancy. At that point I'll move aboard, do any final equipping then sell the car and camper. Then I'll set sail for points unknown. Where I'll go first will depend on where I buy the boat. Once I leave the US I don't plan on returning.

After I quit the job I should be able to maintain my savings because I'll still have my SS retirement income. That will keep my bunnies in hay and me in potatoes. However I don't feel my retirement income will be enough to make improvements on the boat. It should be enough to maintain it though. So I plan on being careful to find a boat that already has most of what I feel I'd like to have.

For a while I plan on hopping around as much of the world as I can. As I age and find sailing too strenuous, I'll likely find a nice harbor/marina to grow old and die.
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Old 16-03-2013, 05:53   #22
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

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Originally Posted by Usagi View Post
However I don't feel my retirement income will be enough to make improvements on the boat. It should be enough to maintain it though. So I plan on being careful to find a boat that already has most of what I feel I'd like to have
Given your budget my take is that whatever you buy will require work - in both time and cash, so I would budget accordingly when buying.......in any event, you will have lots of the former , and less of the latter so I would be looking to buy a boat around what I bring to the table.........not saying to buy a labour intensive project (far from it!), just likely you will have to accept less than ideal to start with.......and that might be accepting a boat that is more fundamentally sound at the price of having less of the equipment you need / wanted fitted (anyway, always a line between "serviceable" and "pretty much fooked & on last legs") - no need to always start with new, but over the longer term sometimes better (and cheaper) to, or at least s/h that has more life expectancy left........but on the other hand the best deal (for you) might be a boat that is fully loaded , but with something fundamentally wrong (lots of osmosis / wet core / dead engine etc etc) which whilst a cost in cash and time (and effort) would be a single "one off" project (that you could reasonably assess before buying and end up with fixed to last a lifetime) rather than a lifetime of smaller (5 minute? ) jobs ...........boats is all about choices and juggling (including / usually(?!) with money!).

If not already, have a quick looksee at the link in my signature below on the cruising equipment - the collected "wisdom" of CF , and includes ballpark prices (but don't quote me on those!) to help get an idea of what you want / need and what is essential to buy with the boat and what would only be nice (BTW, no one has everything in that list!).

Having re-read your previous comments, I see that you are discussing a viewing trip seperate from and well before the actual buying trip - basically I think you are fooked for doing that on the cheap . IMO whilst what you are trying to do is a very good idea (getting hands on knowledge before buying) I think you will be better of money wise to settle on adding that time and effort to your buying trip - taking another week or another month won't really matter at that point as no expenses at "home" to duplicate your living expenses.

Anyway, keep us all posted on how things progress .
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Old 16-03-2013, 06:48   #23
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

Quote:
I would do this: Ask the owner or broker some penetrating questions. It's the "why, why, why, why, why" method. Each why gets you closer to the real truth. Also, tell them you need to travel to look at the boat and ask them various questions regarding the condition; Like: "how would you rate the upholstery on a scale of 1-10?", "Do you feel I could hop in the boat after purchasing it and motor 300 miles up the ICW to get it home?" "Regarding the sails, is the stitching worn, grommets corroded? Stains?" etc. When you get owners to talk enough, things seem to come out.
For instance, I noticed when looking at small cabin cruisers that many ads said "rebuilt engine" or "low hours". I found when asking detailed questions like "do you have receipts for the engine work?" I got answers like, "No, but the previous owner said his dad had rebuilt it"... haha
Also, if a Broker is involved, you can ask him to go to the boat at his convenience and call you from the boat. Then have him walk around and give you details to questions like: "when you walk around looking at the deck gel coat, is it shiny glossy or real powdery looking? How would you rate it on a scale of 1-10?"
Wow! What planet did you say you live on? Owners and brokers must be from a different species there than the ones here on Earth.

But, seriously, I have rarely found an owner who knows much about his/her boat, especially if it is an older, cheaper one. And, finding a broker will to do this on a $20,000 boat would be rarer than than a blue booby in Kansas.
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Old 16-03-2013, 09:27   #24
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

Use sites like Yachtworld to choose boats that would work for you. After you are familiar with different models that you would like to see in person, look on craigslist,boat shopper,local papers, any place that has for sale by owner ads. Start close to home and work your way out. Be very wary of what people tell you about the condition of their boat,especially brokers. I have driven for hours to see my dream boat,only to look at a real p.o.s. Good luck and don't believe anything anybody tells you till you see it for yourself.
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Old 16-03-2013, 09:37   #25
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

To give you an idea of what you will be dealing with, I once drove 12 hours to look at a boat based on its description online and talking to the broker extensively. It was listed as having had an epoxy bottom job done. The boat was hauled out and there were huge visible blisters all over the bottom of the boat. As I stood under the boat popping a giant blister with my finger to see what oozed out I mentioned this to the broker, who turned his back to me and kept repeating that the boat had already had a bottom job. He literally ignored me after that.
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Old 16-03-2013, 09:57   #26
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

In OP's budget / size range he is gonna kiss a lot of frogs!....but you can learn from all of them.

Whilst worthwhile getting info out of Brokers / Vendors in advance nonetheless have to expect that most will bear little relation to reality and therefore yer need to just plan around that being the norm.

But the good news is that where the Broker / Vendor does not know what the boat is about could be where good value lies. likely not. but could be!
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Old 16-03-2013, 10:02   #27
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

Another good example. I drove four hours round-trip to look at a project boat and it wasn't the design that the owner said it was. When I pointed this out to the owner he refused to believe me. It was a very different boat than the one he said it was.
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Old 16-03-2013, 10:07   #28
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

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To give you an idea of what you will be dealing with, I once drove 12 hours to look at a boat based on its description online and talking to the broker extensively. It was listed as having had an epoxy bottom job done. The boat was hauled out and there were huge visible blisters all over the bottom of the boat. As I stood under the boat popping a giant blister with my finger to see what oozed out I mentioned this to the broker, who turned his back to me and kept repeating that the boat had already had a bottom job. He literally ignored me after that.
I can beat that! I once flew 5,000 miles (that was one way) to view my dream boat based on the description on line, several emails to and from a broker and several phone calls during which he confirmed the boat was in "great condition". I booked flights, a hotel, a car, a surveyor and wasted a week of my life and far too many $$$$ to think about. The boat was a total piece of crap. The surveyor arrived and spent 30 minutes checking it over before explaining what he had already found and asked me if I wanted him to carry on or abandon the survey. I bailed. The moral of this story is never, ever, NOT EVER trust a broker, not even if he swears on his granny's life and looks you in the eye sincerely, no matter how convincing he sounds. A broker's word is worth ****.
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Old 16-03-2013, 10:23   #29
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

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Wow! What planet did you say you live on? Owners and brokers must be from a different species there than the ones here on Earth.

But, seriously, I have rarely found an owner who knows much about his/her boat, especially if it is an older, cheaper one. And, finding a broker will to do this on a $20,000 boat would be rarer than than a blue booby in Kansas.
I agree with some brokers it could be a stretch, but I have actually done it with a broker in Florida when I was here in Wa State. You have to have enough brains to set it up. You cant just call out of the blue and ask someone to do it. You discusss the boat, get to know it and the broker, express your concerns about flying all that way with only "distance " pictures to look at etc. Brokers feed their kids by selling boats.. they need to know you are a serious buyer.... BTW, the Florida boat was $23000.
I guess we differ on owners; I've found most sailboat owners to pretty knowledgeable about their boats... and very forthcoming when you talk for a while. Often they cant stop talking about their boats and probably talk too much.
Pic of the boat in question:
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Old 16-03-2013, 10:26   #30
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Re: Minimize Travel Expenses when Buying a Used Boat -

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I guess we differ on owners; I've found most sailboat owners to pretty knowledgeable about their boats... and very forthcoming when you talk for a while.
You're probably a better talker than me! However, one time I was happy when the owner showed up as I was looking at his boat with the broker. The owner wanted to show me where the hull repair had been made after she'd washed up on the breakwater and sunk! Nice repair job of a hole big enough so they pulled the engine out through the side of the hull. None of this was mentioned in the listing.
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