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Old 19-05-2016, 13:23   #31
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

Okay, I just have to play the part of Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

Lot's of people say things that amount to, if you die young will you be more sorry for not going, or for going? Fine. I get that.

But what if you don't die young? What if you live to be 102? Sure, you lived the dream when you were young, but now you're too old for that stuff, and your life has turned into a nightmare. You don't have anything to fall back on. You're living on beans and rice, begging for help from every relative you ever looked down your nose at, and praying that some government agency will maybe treat you as well as the VA treats all of those disabled veterans!

No, I'm not saying that you should put off your dreams in perpetuity, and spend your whole life planning for tomorrow. You have to live today. Of course! But it doesn't hurt to keep in the back of your mind that there may be a tomorrow, too. And delaying the dream a little while, in order to be sure that your old age doesn't turn into a nightmare, really isn't the awful compromise that some people make it sound.

In the end, of course, we all have to make our own decisions and live our own lives. Don't let anyone else tell you that you should live your life according to their priorities. If you want to just go, fine, then just go. If you want to delay a while to get your financial life in order, that's fine, too. It's your life.
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Old 19-05-2016, 14:10   #32
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

This is interesting. My wife and I retired at 55 years ago; however, we've been liveaboard cruisers for 45 years. We have sometimes looked at the flip side of your question with some anxiety.

If our health requires us to leave the boat, how difficult will it be for us on land? I've never paid any property tax or owned a house. Would it be best to rent? It looks like car ownership with appropriate insurance will run over $400/month. I've no knowledge of things like utility payments. I doubt if I'll be able to find something in the 300 sq. ft. range that we would find comfortable. I don't understand how or why people would attempt to heat, cool and maintain as much as 2,000 square feet! Then there's the dirt and plants and I hear people need to replace their roofs on occasion.

I really don't think my position is any different than yours. It will probably turn out easier than either of us expect.
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Old 19-05-2016, 15:36   #33
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

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I really don't think my position is any different than yours. It will probably turn out easier than either of us expect.
I suspect that it will be easier for you adapt to dirt living than a dirt dweller to adapt to living on a boat. Since most of us have been dirt dwellers a long time is why this same question occurs regularly.
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Old 19-05-2016, 17:20   #34
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

Everyone must find the right balance between living now and planning for tomorrow. I agree with denverd0n that it is a fool who lives as if tomorrow doesn't exist. But it is the equal fool who only lives for the future. As with most things in cruising, and in life, the right answer is somewhere in the middle.

I find this retirement question similar to insurance. Some people need greater certainty about the future, and need a bigger safety bubble. Others are more comfortable with uncertainty and risk. There's no right answer. It depends on who you are and what makes you comfortable.
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Old 19-05-2016, 17:35   #35
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

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Everyone must find the right balance between living now and planning for tomorrow. I agree with denverd0n that it is a fool who lives as if tomorrow doesn't exist. But it is the equal fool who only lives for the future. As with most things in cruising, and in life, the right answer is somewhere in the middle.



I find this retirement question similar to insurance. Some people need greater certainty about the future, and need a bigger safety bubble. Others are more comfortable with uncertainty and risk. There's no right answer. It depends on who you are and what makes you comfortable.

Well said. I could not agree more.

I have a business associate and a family friend who is worried about dying penniless, even though her husband left her a successful business, insurance, and substantial income from investments, when he passed. She is a millionaire many times over and in her 80's but pinches every penny so tight her fingers bleed. It is just the way she is and I suspect this view was developed in her childhood during the depression.

Her son and I have both expressed our wish that she spend the remainder of her life enjoying her kids and grandkids, traveling, and just not worrying about everything life MIGHT throw at her. After all, she is in her 80's and deserves some rest and relaxation. She'll hear none of it.

Personally, I refuse to live in that manner. The happiness derived from living life to the fullest far outweighs the risk of losing it all some day.


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Old 19-05-2016, 19:45   #36
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

Well from the pennyless side of boating life, I just don't worry about things all that much. My entire life savings is measured in 3 digits. I own a 44 year old 34' sailboat, I've called home for 9 years. I have no other savings or investments.

After the great recession, I pretty much went sailing and lived for a number of years on $500 ish a month. Now it's up to $600 a month (darn inflation). This week I've sailed about 50 miles so far and earned 25% of my monthly income while doing it. Tomorrow I'll work a few hours then hoist anchor and move another 15 miles or so.

No I don't have much money. Really nothing. But I'm not stuck in an office paying for a mcmansion and spending 20 hours a week commuting either.

If I die tomorrow, I'll have no regrets. On the plus side, I may be the only one that looks at a SS check as a giant windfall. Still 1-1/2 years before I get to that point.

Nope I don't have much. But I'm quite happy with what I have.
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Old 19-05-2016, 21:41   #37
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

sailorchic, you are ine of my heros to be sure. Priorities right?

My SO and I wont have much either when we cast off in a few months. But, we will take the hardest hit at our youngest ages. In a few years we will tap into the interest on our 501k, a few years later, we will draw on our ss too. The point being, our income will rise as we need more money for more comfort and medical. But we will still have a modest income. In the interim, if I aspired to have the most toys or eat out a lot, I would stay put.

But things arent really what I am after and Im not after the dubious bragging rights of having the newest or shiniest stuff. That "glow" lasts about as long as the glow from premium toilet paper.

I grew up poor. Right now is the most prosperous time in my life. Im still poor. But I have things now that I have coveted and desired all my life. Funny enough...I am no happier. Stuffing your self silly with labels and toys feels empty after a while. The emptiness morphs to anxiety, which finds a certain relief, but not fullfillment, from a shopping trip. This cycle isnt fullfilling for me.

My happiest memories are climbing a 14,000 foot peak and hating the whole journey, but accomplishing my goal and feeling that sweet satisfaction of real self reliance. Finding out what I can do snd not giving up when I am not sure I can. Or standing between a mountain lion and her cub and forcing myself to find harmony with nature to such a degree that mother and cub reunited with barely a glance my way from the mother (true story). I have many of these land based stories. Now I want them from the water. If that means eating rice and fish every meal, so be it. The world us so very rich, why limit myself for want of a luxury meal or branded clothing?
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Old 20-05-2016, 11:41   #38
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

denverd0n is correct; medical costs are a huge uncertainty, especially here in the US. Since that's a whole different discussion, and starts to become political, I skipped over that.

I agree that everyone has their own risk tolerance. There certainly is no "right" answer.

And, I understand some people want to leave behind an inheritance. If that's important to you, I have no quibble.

But here's my own take on all that. Medical insurance can be budgeted, albeit with some uncertainty. But broadly, you should be able to avoid excessive increases over time as your health declines.

Pickpaul's point about inheritance being one way someone can amass wealth without having learned any financial acumen reinforces my skepticism toward working hard to leave an inheritance. I've seen too many un-earned resources squandered. The real legacy I'd like to leave my progeny is a willingness to work hard, and the smarts to manage the fruits of their labor. They won't get that by having everything handed to them.

The analogy between risk tolerance in investments and the degree to which one wants to ensure financial security in retirement is not as clean as it appears. It is possible to estimate the risk and return on financial instruments. It is not possible for a healthy person to predict their lifespan or how long good health will last.

Even working as long as possible, and amassing a large, guaranteed lifetime income, leaves huge uncertainties. You still may end up drooling in a wheelchair in the halls of a nursing home. Or drooling in a wheelchair in the halls of your own mansion. Not a huge difference, if you ask me.

I learned years ago (in divorce court, for one) that you don't ever really own any material thing. Any and all of it can be taken away, or become valueless, through no fault of your own. A major illness requiring round-the-clock nursing care can bankrupt all but the wealthiest among us. A stock market crash, or a huge lawsuit against a company we own, can have the same effect. The list goes on.

The only thing we can ever really own is the time we have on this planet. Our wealth is measured by the things we've done and the people we've known.
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Old 20-05-2016, 22:12   #39
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Well from the pennyless side of boating life, I just don't worry about things all that much. My entire life savings is measured in 3 digits. I own a 44 year old 34' sailboat, I've called home for 9 years. I have no other savings or investments.

After the great recession, I pretty much went sailing and lived for a number of years on $500 ish a month. Now it's up to $600 a month (darn inflation). This week I've sailed about 50 miles so far and earned 25% of my monthly income while doing it. Tomorrow I'll work a few hours then hoist anchor and move another 15 miles or so.

No I don't have much money. Really nothing. But I'm not stuck in an office paying for a mcmansion and spending 20 hours a week commuting either.

If I die tomorrow, I'll have no regrets. On the plus side, I may be the only one that looks at a SS check as a giant windfall. Still 1-1/2 years before I get to that point.

Nope I don't have much. But I'm quite happy with what I have.
If you were at one end of the scale and TacomaSailor at the other, I would be closer to where you are at. I came from a modest Canadian family and have always worked. As the years have gone on, I have seen more of a polarization of wealth. I have learned to live within my means and lowered myself to most occasions...financially that is.
I have always done my own work on any of my boats and when I saw a particular boat was over my head, I got rid of it. Where I'm at now is an older, top quality vessel with a simple rig that doesn't break the bank.I officially retired this year and when I want to cruise, merely rent out the house and cruise on the rent it brings in.
In 2001, I saw that the housing market in Ca. was going crazy and sold one of my boats to buy a house in Hawaii. Lived on Macaroni and cheese and sold it in 2005 when I knew that the downturn was coming. Tripled my investment and have been mortgageless free since.
I owe nothing. My costs are minimum and I don't worry about such things as what will happen in my 80's. Hell, I've had two MCI. I live today.
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Old 26-05-2016, 11:47   #40
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

If you wait for enough money to cruise and live, you will never do it....

Just go, you would be amazed at how cheaply you can live when you learn the true meaning of wants and needs....

Best of luck!
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Old 26-05-2016, 12:09   #41
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

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"If you have more assets than you can mange yourself (and I question how you'd amass them without some financial acumen)"

Inheritance is one obvious and common explanation that didn't occur to you.
Some folks I know had planned on an inheritance. Her father, now 95, is still going strong. Their plans have been drastically impacted by his longevity.
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Old 26-05-2016, 12:54   #42
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

The property taxes and fixed costs of living/owning a house here in Morro Bay, CA...where people go to vacation...would be conservatively $12,000 per year. This is the forever costs, which will only go up even if you have the house paid off. Add in a mortgage payment and add another $30K to that per year for an average/lower end beach shack.

Now what does it cost to live aboard on a boat?
$79 for the monthly mooring space lease to the harbor district and $20/mo for a liveaboard fee for trash and water. So $99/mo or $1200/yr.

You have house maintenance....you have boat maintenance, so call those equal.
So by living aboard while the kids finish school before we cast off cruising again into retirement, is saving us an easy $10K per year (not to mention buying crap we don't have room for). $10K/yr is almost enough for us to cruise like Kings in Mexico on for a year! It's a no brainier.

Now I have to get back up on deck for the Great Teak Deck Rip off and Replacement Project of 2016....we won't talk about that cost, but it's about the same as a new roof!
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Old 26-05-2016, 20:19   #43
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

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Now I have to get back up on deck for the Great Teak Deck Rip off and Replacement Project of 2016....we won't talk about that cost, but it's about the same as a new roof!
Hey Rich...why put teak back on? Just go f/g decks
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Old 26-05-2016, 20:27   #44
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

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Hey Rich...why put teak back on? Just go f/g decks
Forget the #NeverTrump movement....I'm in the #NeverTeak movement!
Fiberglass deck with KiwiGrip is the plan amigo...I'm crazy but not stupid....well...maybe...
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Old 26-05-2016, 20:38   #45
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Re: Liveaboard cruiser to be and retirement

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Forget the #NeverTrump movement....I'm in the #NeverTeak movement!
Fiberglass deck with KiwiGrip is the plan amigo...I'm crazy but not stupid....well...maybe...
Uh...dude...you own a boat and a beast at that...
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