Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-11-2016, 08:27   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cleveland, Oh.
Boat: cal29
Posts: 63
Keel Repair

Hello Everyone,
I have a Cal29 that unfortunately ended up on some rocks. Upon lifting out of the water, the only visible damage was a few nicks in the keel. The bigger problem is the keel is now loose and will swing. I believe that upon impact, the keel was pushed up into the hull and whatever the keel is mounted to broke loose. Looking in the bilge, there are no bolts visible except for two u-shaped lifting brackets. Anybody have any ideas on how this situation can be fixed? Thank you for your feed-back.
Ken
__________________

__________________
alexanick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 09:47   #2
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,391
Images: 25
Re: Keel Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanick View Post
Hello Everyone,
I have a Cal29 that unfortunately ended up on some rocks. Upon lifting out of the water, the only visible damage was a few nicks in the keel. The bigger problem is the keel is now loose and will swing. I believe that upon impact, the keel was pushed up into the hull and whatever the keel is mounted to broke loose. Looking in the bilge, there are no bolts visible except for two u-shaped lifting brackets. Anybody have any ideas on how this situation can be fixed? Thank you for your feed-back.
Ken
What year Cal 29 is this? We owned a 1976 Cal 2-29 for 20+ years. On that boat, and virtually all of the Cal 29's we knew of, the keels were fiberglass and an integral part of the hull. The ballast was lowered into and "encapsulated" within the keel molding and then locked in place with several layers of fiberglass over the top which formed the bottom of the "bilge" for all intents and purposes.
__________________

__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 10:01   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,244
Re: Keel Repair

Typical damage from hard grounding may crack a smile shape ahead and aft of the keel. Additionally, inspect inside all interior furniture as bulkhead or galley cabinets may break their tabbing from the hull. Also, the engine bed may come loose from the hull. None of these will be readily apparent, you have to look closely for cracks.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 12:19   #4
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,680
Re: Keel Repair

If that keel moves you are in for some deep trouble. Keel repair on an encapsulated keel is normally much more difficult and expensive than on a modern bolted keel.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 15:52   #5
Registered User
 
hobopacket's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 335
Re: Keel Repair

If you were able to take some detailed pictures we could steer you more in the right direction
__________________
hobopacket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 04:21   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,507
Images: 240
Re: Keel Repair

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, hobopacket.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 04:41   #7
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Keel Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
If that keel moves you are in for some deep trouble. Keel repair on an encapsulated keel is normally much more difficult and expensive than on a modern bolted keel.
The above is very true. And pics may help as others have suggested. It would also help to have some Non-Destructive Inspection done. Say via a thermal imager. Some Recent Thermal Images from Marine Surveys That way you might be able to "see" what's going on inside of the keel's fiberglass shell. As besides that, it would seem that the only way to really know what the issue is, is to open up said shell.

Out of curiosity, is your boat one that's spent a lot of time in salt water? And either way, has the (galvanized steel) beam been inspected, & or replaced? It's under the compression post, encased in the fiberglass floors structure. So that were it corroded prior to the impact, it may have broken free of it's mountings. And or, crumpled from the grounding's shock.

Here's a page which documents one owner's replacement of his beam. And the rust issue is a major one on Cal 40s that's gotten a fair bit of press.
Wilkie's Sailboat Page


Edit: How do you know that there's movement in the keel? It's encapsulated, which would seemingly make knowing this a tough thing to determine, non?

And in order to get a better look at things, you may need to purchase a bore scope. Along with drilling a few holes discretely into the floor pan, as well as in the casing which surrounds the described beam, above. They're pretty inexpensive nowadays. And they even have them at Harbor Freight, though I've no idea of the quality of said units.

BTW, if she's on the hard, it's likely wise to use more jackstands than usual to support her. With more of her weight on them rather than on the keel. That way hopefully you'll put less stress on the internal glass work that's still in place above the keel. Ditto on her keel floors.

One other early morning thought is to try posing this question on some of the Cal owner's groups. Such as the one on Yahoo for example. And if you do, please let us know what you find out
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 08:05   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cleveland, Oh.
Boat: cal29
Posts: 63
Re: Keel Repair

To: svHyLyte,

Thanks for the response. It is a 1970, and what you said makes sense judging from what I see looking in the bilge. As I stated in my post, I don't see any bolt configuration. All that is visible are two u-shaped brackets that are probably there to drop the lead weight down into the keel. I turned a claim into my insurance and they will probably want to send a surveyor out to take a look.

Ken
__________________
alexanick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 08:11   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cleveland, Oh.
Boat: cal29
Posts: 63
Re: Keel Repair

Looking at the outside, I did not see any cracks. I will take a closer look. On the inside, looking inside the engine compartment, there is separation where the sides meet the back of the front panel. Thanks for responding
__________________
alexanick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 08:13   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cleveland, Oh.
Boat: cal29
Posts: 63
Re: Keel Repair

What isn't expensive on a boat. Thanks for responding.

Ken
__________________
alexanick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 08:19   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cleveland, Oh.
Boat: cal29
Posts: 63
Re: Keel Repair

The boat is in Lake Erie. To my knowledge, it has never been in salt water. The movement in the keel was detected when it was lifted out for the winter season. The boat is stored in a cradle, not on jack stands so I believe we have adequate support. I'm waiting to hear from the ins. co. Hopefully the surveyor they send will have the equipment necessary to make an accurate estimate of the damage. Thanks for responding.

Ken
__________________
alexanick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 09:00   #12
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,680
Re: Keel Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanick View Post
What isn't expensive on a boat. Thanks for responding.

Ken
It depends on a boat. On a boat with a market value of $100 000 a $10 000 euros keel repair main look just expensive, a $10 000 euros keel repair on a $9000 market value boat will make no sense, it will be just too expensive, being cheaper to buy an used boat on the same condition.

If I was you I would ask for competent shipyard, or more than one, to do a budget on that repair, making sure they would use adequate diagnosis equipment. The problem is that even with adequate equipment on a 40 year old boat I very much doubt they would give you a budget without taking the keel out and see the damage and that means that in the end they can ask you more than what you are willing to pay.
__________________

Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fin Keel? Long Keel? Jeff? bob_deb Monohull Sailboats 89 13-03-2012 12:28
Center board vs keel vs twin keel vs twin centerboard jscott Monohull Sailboats 32 26-03-2009 15:48
Replacing deep keel with shoal keel? shimari Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 01-03-2009 20:06
Twin keel v Fin keel, pro's n con's ? Davegw Monohull Sailboats 6 12-02-2009 03:08
Full Keel or Fin Keel? RedDragonSails Monohull Sailboats 23 06-10-2008 13:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.