Jurisdiction Question

[Pelagic]

This is just a theoretical question that I don't have an answer for.:

If a serious crime is committed on board a yacht while in mid ocean international waters......upon arrival at first port.....who has jurisdiction to prosecute the crime?

1) The first port of call?
2) The country of yacht registry?
3) The country of the Accused?
4) The country of the Victim?

[belizesailor]

What serious crime did you have in mind?

[Wotname]

Hmm...
presumably there is difference between investigating the crime and prosecuting it.

I would guess the port of call coppers will be the first cab off the rank and they would (might?) liase or otherwise involve the wallopers of the yacht's flag country.

As for trial etc, presumably the flag state??

The victim nationality wouldn't matter (?????) and surely that of the accused doesn't count.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

This is just a theoretical question that I don't have an answer for.:

If a serious crime is committed on board a yacht while in mid ocean international waters......upon arrival at first port.....who has jurisdiction to prosecute the crime?

1) The first port of call?
2) The country of yacht registry?
3) The country of the Accused?
4) The country of the Victim?

I'm guessing a bi there, but neither the acuser or the victim matter. I would have to be the country of the yachts registry. First port of call might be police as Wotname noted, but since the crime didn't occur in their waters, they wouldn't have jurisdiction.

[SunnySky]

Your crew was that big of a problem?

I am guessing flag state but honestly don't know...
Best response would probably be to get on the radio/sat phone if possible and discuss situation with flag state and next port of call...
(keeping in mind radio would not be at all confidential)

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

This is just a theoretical question that I don't have an answer for.:

If a serious crime is committed on board a yacht while in mid ocean international waters......upon arrival at first port.....who has jurisdiction to prosecute the crime?

1) The first port of call?
2) The country of yacht registry?
3) The country of the Accused?
4) The country of the Victim?

How soon do you need your new bearing???

[GordMay]

The alleged criminal could be prosecuted by any of:
- the country in which the vessel is registered (flag state)
- the country of the victim
- the country of the perpetrator
- the United States.
The last bullet isn't a joke - the US often enforces its laws in international waters.

[justwaiting]

You may find this interesting

[QUOTE]
A country (State) will only be entitled to prosecute a crime if it has recognised grounds to claim jurisdiction over the event in international law, and its domestic law expressly asserts that jurisdiction. Jurisdiction can be territorial in nature or based on internationally recognised grounds of extra-territorial application of law. This paper will outline how a claim of jurisdiction over a criminal act can be based on any one of a number of different grounds, each of which has its own limitations (whether legal or practical). For instance, the State in which the ship is registered, its flag State, has primary jurisdiction over events on board the ship; but the practice of flagging passenger ships in open registries makes prosecutions unlikely for reasons that will be discussed below. Another determinant is whether the ship is on the high seas or in territorial waters of a State at the time of the criminal act. Legal principles of territorial jurisdiction over the sea, derived from UNCLOS, are therefore pertinent, as is the domestic law of the State in question. UNCLOS distinguishes between those crimes committed closer to shore and those committed while the ship is on the high seas. If the ship is truly on the high seas, then other States can rely on still more grounds to claim what is, in effect, extra-territorial application of their domestic laws. The result, more often than not, is that there might be multiple States entitled to claim jurisdiction over a particular criminal act, based on the flag and location of the ship and the nationalities of the people involved. The outcome reached may well end up being a one negotiated through diplomatic channels, largely based on pragmatism.

The types of crime perpetrated at sea can extend across the entire spectrum of criminality. Piracy and terrorism are at the extreme end. The hijacking of the [[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Achille Lauro and September 11 provoked international responses leading to conventions such aswww.aph.gov.au/.../house_of_representatives_committees?.../[B]crimes

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I would guess the port of call coppers will be the first cab off the rank and they would (might?) liase or otherwise involve the wallopers of the yacht's flag country.

.

This made me laugh......it sounds like English....I think I follow it.....but......


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Pelagic]

[QUOTE=justwaiting;1955256]You may find this interesting

........ , the State in which the ship is registered, its flag State, has primary jurisdiction over events on board the ship; but the practice of flagging passenger ships in open registries makes prosecutions unlikely ......

. ...... If the ship is truly on the high seas, then other States can rely on still more grounds to claim what is, in effect, extra-territorial application of their domestic laws. The result, more often than not, is that there might be multiple States entitled to claim jurisdiction over a particular criminal act, based on the flag and location of the ship and the nationalities of the people involved......

Thanks justwaiting...... exactly what I was looking for.


As Gordon summarised, anyone can claim jurisdiction, but it seems to start with the Flag State.

Now, which Flag States sanctions whipping as a normal method of governance?.....
....I have a crew meeting next week

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

This made me laugh......it sounds like English....I think I follow it.....but......

Not quite English, it's Strain, a sub-dialect from Down Under which is usually intelligible to those of us who speak other English dialects like Merican.

[skipmac]

So Pelagic, is this a question you are asking for "a friend"?

[Pelagic]

Yes....metaphorically speaking...

[GordMay]

[QUOTE=Pelagic;1955305]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

... Now, which Flag States sanctions whipping as a normal method of governance?.....
....I have a crew meeting next week

Evidently, there are 33 countries that use lawful, official JCP (Judicial corporal punishment, including caning, bastinado, birching, whipping, or strapping)
➥ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judici...t_of_countries
Take your pick.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The alleged criminal could be prosecuted by any of:
.............



- the country of the perpetrator
...........
.

Perhaps a very silly question but in the English law tradition, wouldn't the country of the perpetrator only be known AFTER a guilty finding at trial. Prior to that event, there is no known perpetrator...

Or have I missed something basic here?