Jolly Roger, Pirates and Political Correctness

[Astrid]

"Will it be the lash or the cane, sir?"

[MarinerJo]

Originally Posted by Astrid

"Will it be the lash or the cane, sir?"

Lash first...cane later

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by minaret

The figure of 8,500 people aboard has been contested by many of the survivors of the Gustloff. Most estimate there may have been as many as 10-12k aboard. No records were kept during the evacuation of Memel and the crew took aboard as many as they could fit into the holds and on deck. The situation was so desperate that people standing in line to board the Gustloff didn't leave their places in line even when bombed and strafed by Shturmoviks, because they'd rather die than be taken by the Russians. Many survivors say the decks were standing room only when the torpedoes struck. The allies came up with smaller estimate of loss of life to appease the Russians, who feared it made them look bad. She was marked with the Red Cross...

Same thing with Japan and the boys that were sent on the Battan death march...put'em in a ship and mark it with hospital insignia only to make it to Japan and forced into labor camps...some had no markings and were shot up by our airmen(US)..

[Adamante]

Originally Posted by Astrid

"Will it be the lash or the cane, sir?"

Caning is mostly for undisciplined British school kids or American vandals in Singapore. Lashing is more nautical.

“Now don’t mistake me. I’m not advising cruelty or brutality with no purpose. My point is that cruelty with purpose is not cruelty – it’s efficiency. Then a man will never disobey once he’s watched his mate’s backbone laid bare. He’ll see the flesh jump, hear the whistle of the whip for the rest of his life.”

[Astrid]

Caning was used at sea as well; midshipmen and ships boys were subjected to caning when corporal punishment was called for. The expression 'kiss the gunners daughter' comes from the practice of bending the lad over the barrel of a gun to inflict the required blows from the cane.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Astrid

"Will it be the lash or the cane, sir?"

Seems like the lash and cane were part of the reason pirates became pirates. Hard to blame men who were forcibly taken from their homes and abused for turning on their abusers...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Adamante

Caning is mostly for undisciplined British school kids or American vandals in Singapore. Lashing is more nautical.

“Now don’t mistake me. I’m not advising cruelty or brutality with no purpose. My point is that cruelty with purpose is not cruelty – it’s efficiency. Then a man will never disobey once he’s watched his mate’s backbone laid bare. He’ll see the flesh jump, hear the whistle of the whip for the rest of his life.”

Lashing was heavily used by the British, Prussian, and most other armies of the period. Sentences in the army tended to have a much higher number of strokes than in the Navy. In the British Navy, the captain was technically limited to a dozen strokes, though this was seldom adhered to. In the Prussian army sentences of 200 lashes were common. And don't even get started on the Russian knout.

[nv5l]

I actually appreciate the historical references much more than the drunken ones. ;-)

[zeehag]

cat of the nine tails was a sea thing. brit navy, as i recall, wasnt it?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by zeehag

cat of the nine tails was a sea thing. brit navy, as i recall, wasnt it?

SShhh. The cat lives in his red baize bag, and we don't want to wake him....

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Adamante

Caning is mostly for undisciplined British school kids or American vandals in Singapore. Lashing is more nautical.

“Now don’t mistake me. I’m not advising cruelty or brutality with no purpose. My point is that cruelty with purpose is not cruelty – it’s efficiency. Then a man will never disobey once he’s watched his mate’s backbone laid bare. He’ll see the flesh jump, hear the whistle of the whip for the rest of his life.”

Gee, you make it sound like this could be an unpleasant experience, with no redeeming stimulatory effects.

And I would agree, lashing is more naughtycal

[minaret]

National Maritime Museum's Cat. Ouch! They were often made with red leather wrapping and thongs, and lived in a red baize bag, apparently so you couldn't see the blood...

[Adamante]

Originally Posted by zeehag

cat of the nine tails was a sea thing. brit navy, as i recall, wasnt it?

Correct. In fact, the expression "let the cat out of the bag" is believed by some to originate from the British naval tradition of keeping the cat-o-nine in a leather bag until needed on deck. I personally doubt that, because other languages without any naval tradition whatsoever also use that expression. But it's a nice, romantic thought.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Adamante

Correct. In fact, the expression "let the cat out of the bag" is believed by some to originate from the British naval tradition of keeping the cat-o-nine in a leather bag until needed on deck.

It wasn't just the British, and it wasn't just a naval practice. Read Richard Henry Dana's Two Years Before the Mast, and you'll see that flogging was practiced on merchant ships as well.

Pirate captains flogged their crews as well.

[zeehag]

ye didnt want to let the cat out of the bag as that meant someone was to get whipped that night..... when soaked in seawater for a while, the tails get nice 'n' nasty for use--- they used em wet, you know.....sea water wet. stings worse that way dontcha know....the knots didnt feel so great either,i would imagine....