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Old 03-05-2008, 22:14   #31
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Originally Posted by cathyoz View Post
why all this controversy?
i used to give to Greenpeace, amesty international..ect., without questionning their statut
everybody has to start somewhere.

So many people go sailing just for ego or selfish, and they will drink in beer the $25 in one night !! getting P--- in some resort or others..or smoke in 2 days in cigarettes.
well , i am prepared to trust oceanswatch , their idea anyway..
because i sail in the Pacifique, and care

but all the people out there , who built , refit and buy boat " to sail in the sunset" and "dreams life"..
Do there really care where they dream to go ? and how the people lives and the Islands of the Pacific?
Do they just expect to show up in remote island with $$$$$$ dollars boats and what ?...drinking cocktail in the sunset, because they have the "best fridge onboard" that technology permit?

why not have a prupose, a altruisme goal?

In France , some organisation used private boat sail to Africa to bring some medecine in Senegal..ect..

it seams that people of this forum prepared their boat to sail in the Pacific, so maybe a few will want to feel they do it too with an goal , not just ego or selfish endeavour.
and if Chris and his oceanwatch teams are willing to coordinate some good intention and will, Good on them.
Cathy,
Sullivan nailed it concerning why people cannot just assume OceansWatch is an efficient and trustworthy organization. It's called a healthy skepticism, which actually helps to eliminate scam charities, which ultimately is a good thing for OceansWatch. The fewer scam charities that are out there then the less competition legitimate charities have.

I detected in your post a little cynicism about cruisers being selfish and self-centered in that all they are interested in doing is drinking and doing things just for themselves. Perhaps you are correct in that some of them are exactly as you described...basically, parrot heads whose sole existence is to live the party life. You would be wrong in assuming that all cruisers are this way.

I would be willing to bet that most cruisers have given time and money to charities at some time in their lives. Just because they are out on boats having a good time at present does not mean that they have not given in the past nor are giving right now to charity back home or by some other means. Cruisers are also known for working together to help each other out as well as helping the people of the countries that they visit.

It would be unjust for charities or for cruisers to be prejudged here don't you think?

David
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Old 04-05-2008, 00:07   #32
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Cool

I detected in your post a little cynicism about cruisers being selfish and self-centered in that all they are interested in doing is drinking and doing things just for themselves. Perhaps you are correct in that some of them are exactly as you described. You would be wrong in assuming that all of them are this way.

dear david
i do not assume what you said above, it is why in the first place i point out on this forum this organisation , for people who would like like me to be aware and concern and maybe want to put their skills, time , and a bit of money for in my opinion a generous , geniou cause.
it was of course only in my humble opinion

by the way
i am 46 , since i am 18 , i live "on" or around sailing boats, racing and cruising most of my life and working too in the sailing and boating industrie, from France to Australia , and the caraibean too..ect.

so i have a pretty good idea what the boathies crowd are...
i do not assume anything , but i am a bit surprise by so much suspision about oceanswatch..
You see in Australia, and New Zealand , i beleive we are good genious people, naive maybe sometime, but good intention and good heart .
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Old 04-05-2008, 05:02   #33
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You see in Australia, and New Zealand , i beleive we are good genious people, naive maybe sometime, but good intention and good heart .
I think I know what's going on here, Cathy. I have a theory.

It's an age old case of cultural differences that crop up from time to time.

I think I detect a little bit of the French culture/background here. Most of the people on this board are not French. We do not think the way you do about many things. You may have left France, but I can see a lot of French thinking in your posts in this thread.

The quote above could be interpreted as discriminatory (saying Oz and NZ people are good implies others are not as good). I know (because of your French background) you are probably just showing pride in your new home, Oz and NZ. This is often how the French express things and Americans at least, often mistake these kinds of statements. The French have the same (or even more) pride in France itself and the language which often results in misunderstandings between our cultures as well.

Saying cruisers are drunk, selfish jerks is also just another colorful French way of saying that you have come across many like that. Your culture is full of passion and drama (I write like this as well), but not everyone is aware of this.

Being European, you understand what German culture is, right?

Your best bet to convince Americans to do something is to use the same approach you'd use with Germans. They need to see evidence in logic in their decision making process when it comes to charities and investments.

So forum folks... it's not really Cathy being mean here, I don't think. It's just a cultural gap in the way she expresses herself and views the charity. Her native culture's decision making process is different from ours, so she will decide on donating to a chartity in a different way, and it would appear she is frustrated and not understanding our way of evaluating a charity.
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Old 04-05-2008, 15:47   #34
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Saying cruisers are drunk, selfish jerks is also just another colorful French way of saying that you have come across many like that. Your culture is full of passion and drama (I write like this as well), but not everyone is aware of this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

yes i was born and raise in France , but 25 years australian too
and do not really connect to France anymore.
i just kept the accent and maybe , yes the passionate temperament , i come from the south ( Nice)

I never say that cruisers are all always drunk , and never used the world "jerks"..( this is not in my rethorique vocabulary)
i was commenting on the $ 25 dollar cost , than some people seams to find too much..
that, i say it is for most cruiser ,really, it is a small contribution , yes, a lots will spend that ,drinking in a yacht Club in a single evening,...

i am always surprised that many people on sailing Forum in France or the states or Australia for that matter spend lot of time and energy and money to create 'a dreams" boat to sail in the sunset , but do they really know or are conscious of the islands where they dreams about to sail.
most of the villages where they intend to sail, the value of their boat will be more than the total income of the village for few years ..
it just seams to make sens to me , to visit an island with a purpose to improve the local , village life, not just passing by...collecting nice pictures of tropical setting..

and of course commenting on a generous heart of Australian and kiwi, does not undermine other culture at all.
but Australia and Nz think maybe more like a "big Village" maybe compare to the States i supose, and life beeing less stressfull , we are not so wary about "Scams" .
I was the offical photographer for few year of "Clean up Australia and the world'
a simple idea started by a sailing mate in Australia , ian kiernan
who started few year ago after sailing around the world and seeing so many rubish floating..
it became a big organisation, and create an awarness at many level ..
so good idea and altruisme start have to start somewhere ..
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Old 04-05-2008, 15:50   #35
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Clean Up

web site for clean up Australia ..and behond
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:37   #36
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Reef Check - Saving Reefs Worldwide is a mature international organization if people are looking for another outlet.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:10   #37
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The problem started when Oceanwatch wasn't producing documentation for the charity. A possible donor asked for documentation, and it was slow in coming, or not produced at all. The
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:11   #38
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The thread went a little sour, and then Oceanwatch showed up here. I posted the thread only with the intention of BUYER BEWARE. It was not a knock, or accusation. Just to take notice, and beware.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:29   #39
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We work very closely with ReefCheck, it's a great system. In fact 10 of us just went to Tonga for ReefCheck training at our own expense a couple of weeks ago. We can now offer ReefCheck training to OceansWatch members in Tonga and our goal is to have many members yachts with ReefCheck trained crew on board assisting communities and national fisheries departments as they cruise. ReefCheck and CoralWatch are the 2 protocolos that we use for initial coral reef health surveys.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:40   #40
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What happened was that someone asked for more information about OceansWatch but this occured soon after we discovered that parts of our website had been copied. This made me nervous so I asked that they tell me a bit more about themselves first. They did and I neglected to reply for several days. I am incredibly busy, often inundated by emails, do 16 hour days etc! When I got a reminder I sent a copy of our Trust Deeds. I am very happy to send copies of our Trust deed to interested parties and it's also available through the NZ Govenment on a public website here http://www.companies.govt.nz/scanned...0055180738.pdf
If anyone wants to read the Deed I am happy to answer questions about it when time allows.
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Old 05-05-2008, 13:03   #41
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Oceanswatch,

You seemed to be disgruntled, extremely impatient, and refused to offer your documentation. You did offer to put the site management in the middle by requesting that they would not share the information with the rest of the site.

Also being directed to the Hans Christian site did not put you in a favorable light.

quote by Callum
Please read http://hanschristian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?...83f3dcbd8#18900 and do a bit of googling to see the extent of the spamming on forums, guestbooks, etc. Hundreds of posts - most with links to Mr Bone's yacht delivery business - it has been relentless. Mr Bone SHOULD be donating income and time to Oceanswatch, afterall, he is riding on their back in not having forum posts deleted as spam. Come on - smell the coffee.

When one asks for donations for a cause. It is the right of the person asked to inquire to who you are, and what you will accomplish. Becoming stand offish, and setting demands does you no good at all. If your intentions are honorable then you get my BEST WISHES. If your intentions are for something else, then I hope you are found out. Starting something new can be stressful, and hectic, and we don't always put our best foot forward under those conditions.

It may be in your best interest to send an apology to the other site, and forward the documentation asked for. It is always a good sign of character when one is strong enough to apologize.
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:03   #42
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Hello, All.

This thread has been reviewed by Cruising Forum's moderation team, and closed to further posting. Here is our consensus.

Cathy Oz has brought the organization, OceanWatch, to the attention of our members as a cause that may be of interest to sailors and cruisers. Since the organization is relatively new, and therefore has a limited track record, questions have been asked by CF members about it's governing documents and plans for good works.

Links to information provided by various parties about OceansWatch is summarized here for your convenience, should you wish to read more.

OceansWatch website: Oceanswatch: Home
Donna Lange's website: http://www.donnalange.com/joinoceanswatch.html
OceanWatch Deed of Trust: http://www.companies.govt.nz/scanned...0055180738.pdf

It appears to the moderation team that this subject has been discussed to the point that any further debate is likely to become unproductive. Should CF members wish to conduct further deliberations or discussions, please do so in the context of private exchanges via email or other means directly with the Principals of the OceanWatch organization.

Please note that Cruisers Forum neither approves nor disapproves of OceansWatch, as it is not our policy to advocate for or against any organization or cause.

This thread is closed to further posts.
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