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Old 11-12-2013, 00:14   #46
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Re: It's all about the rope...

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Everything else is optional, a bowline should be able to be tied hanging upside down being drug backwards thru the water, while ducks peck at your face, with one hand blindfolded.

I am not kidding about the ducks!
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Old 11-12-2013, 00:21   #47
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

> does it matter if a knot is sloppy and difficult to untie

Yes - some knots can jam so tight that you can't undo then without damaging the fibres. Whether a knot is "jamming" or "non-jamming" is critical in selecting the appropriate one for a given situation.
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Old 11-12-2013, 00:25   #48
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Re: It's all about the rope...

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
I think you mean controlling the clew for trimming...

There's a lot more lines that attach to sails ... none of them are called sheets...
Actually, I don't think any line is attached to the types of sails we use on modern cruisers. Sheet, halyard, boltrope, outhaul -- that's about it. Maybe a Cunningham is a line, but sheets, halyards, and boltropes certainly are not lines.

I know that many people think that "line" is just a nautical synonym for "rope", but in my opinion, using it this way causes loss of meaning. Rope is the raw material; a line is a rope put to a particular use -- a dockline for example. "Pass me up that hank of 24mm rope; I need another dockline", is something you will hear professionals saying. Or "haul away on that line and finish the job; I need the rope for something else". I don't think you would ever hear a pro call it a "hank of line" or a "coil of line" -- to my ear, at least, this sounds like amateurs trying to sound nautical.
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Old 11-12-2013, 00:52   #49
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

I just realised the link I posted to the truckies hitch shows an overly complicated one... should be a lot simpler... and the one I use is a lot simpler... knot easy to take a photo of as that would need 3 hands..
Re Terminology....
Knot... as in reef knot... tied in one bit of rope
Bend.... tied in two bits of rope
Hitch... one bit of rope tied to something.

Modified Reef Knot... what you tie your shoe laces with....
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Old 11-12-2013, 00:53   #50
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

> I don't think any line is attached to the types of sails we use on modern cruisers. Sheet, halyard, boltrope, outhaul -- that's about it. Maybe a Cunningham is a line, but sheets, halyards, and boltropes certainly are not lines.

Sorry, Chapman disagrees.

Chapman Pilotage & Seamanship:

Purchased as “rope” once it is in use on board a boat rope is called LINE or by name of the rigging part it has become. Sailors will tell you that there aren’t many ropes aboard a ship or boat. There is the bolt rope at the foot or luff of a sail, or a tiller rope, or a foot rope attached to the lower border of a sail, or a bell rope, or a few other rare ones. Everything else is a line.


(My bold)
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:03   #51
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

This is more like it...still a bit more complicated than mine but then I'm not hauling Chep pallets down the Hume at 120k...
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:18   #52
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
I use the sheepshank all the time for tying down loads on trailers and the like, never been a problem. The big strength of the knot being that it will always undo, no matter how much tension you put on the load. But that's the point really, I know the knot will undo so I always think of using it where that is a strength, not a weakness.

Yes, the alpine would be a better alternative where that is potentially a problem.

Matt
Maybe you are confusing the sheepshank with the wool hitch? Young fellers like StuM call it a truckers hitch but the knot predates trucks by a long way.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:31   #53
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

> Young fellers like StuM

Thank you kind sir, but I fear you may be labouring under a misapprehension. I haven't been one of them for many a decade.

I used the term because that is how Grog describes it in the link I provided.

(He also parenthesises it as "(Power Cinch Knot, Lorry Knot, Haymaker's Hitch, Harvester's Hitch) (ABOK # 2124, p 344)"
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:32   #54
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

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Originally Posted by MoxieGirl View Post
There we go, NOW we are finally getting to the crux of the matter.

100s of knots one could learn. 4 or 5 that everyone uses frequently, and when you are at sea for hours on end, does it matter if a knot is sloppy and difficult to untie? It'll just give you something to do while you watch the sun set.

But, when you have guests aboard, you MUST have at least one knot in your arsenal that will impress. ROFL.

MG
The coolest knot around is the monkey fist. Make key rings for your friends and give them out at Christmas.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:39   #55
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

Ahh.. this is more like it. The knot thread finally gets some disagreement amongst the posters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoxieGirl View Post
......... and when you are at sea for hours on end, does it matter if a knot is sloppy and difficult to untie? It'll just give you something to do while you watch the sun set.
......

MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
> does it matter if a knot is sloppy and difficult to untie

Yes - some knots can jam so tight that you can't undo then without damaging the fibres. Whether a knot is "jamming" or "non-jamming" is critical in selecting the appropriate one for a given situation.
StuM gives one reason why it is important; another is that weather can change rapidly and that knot that was sloppy now becomes a critical safety issue. Maybe not for 99.99% of the time you sail but one day, a sloppy knot will bite your ar*e
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:43   #56
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
> Young fellers like StuM

Thank you kind sir, but I fear you may be labouring under a misapprehension. I haven't been one of them for many a decade.

I used the term because that is how Grog describes it in the link I provided.

(He also parenthesises it as "(Power Cinch Knot, Lorry Knot, Haymaker's Hitch, Harvester's Hitch) (ABOK # 2124, p 344)"

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Missed by that much !

Would you believe " Fellers young at heart ?"
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:37   #57
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
> I don't think any line is attached to the types of sails we use on modern cruisers. Sheet, halyard, boltrope, outhaul -- that's about it. Maybe a Cunningham is a line, but sheets, halyards, and boltropes certainly are not lines.

Sorry, Chapman disagrees.

Chapman Pilotage & Seamanship:

Purchased as “rope” once it is in use on board a boat rope is called LINE or by name of the rigging part it has become. Sailors will tell you that there aren’t many ropes aboard a ship or boat. There is the bolt rope at the foot or luff of a sail, or a tiller rope, or a foot rope attached to the lower border of a sail, or a bell rope, or a few other rare ones. Everything else is a line.


(My bold)
I did not claim that mine is the only correct opinion -- it's a matter of taste (good taste and bad taste , but still taste).

Chapman does not contradict me, however. I did specifically say that a rope IN USE is a line, or a halyard, or a sheet, or an outhaul, etc., which is exactly what Chapman says.

But a rope coiled up in a locker waiting to be put to use for something is not a "line" for me, nor do I read Chapman as saying that this would necessarily be so, despite the fact that the rope is "on board". You don't whip the ends of a "line"; you whip the ends of a "rope". On the other hand, you don't say "haul away on that rope there" -- because if you can haul on it, then it is attached to something, so has been put to use, and so can be described more precisely -- "haul away on that halyard" or "haul away on that line".

That's my opinion, not contradicted by Chapman, but others may have a different opinion, of course.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:27   #58
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Maybe you are confusing the sheepshank with the wool hitch? Young fellers like StuM call it a truckers hitch but the knot predates trucks by a long way.
That looks a lot like what I have always called a truckie's hitch, and dad was a truckie, so I am comfortable with it.

The sheepshank gives two loops, one of which I use as a pulley to cinch down the load.

MAtt
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:59   #59
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Re: It's all about the Rope...

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Originally Posted by MoxieGirl View Post
...But, when you have guests aboard, you MUST have at least one knot in your arsenal that will impress. ROFL.

MG
How about a Turks Head knot to mark the King Spoke on your wheel?
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:19   #60
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All opinions are correct.
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