Is this a realistic plan?

[iGrf]

Originally Posted by KP44

My relatives say much of Europe is crowded with refugees (all men) and many cities and areas are not safe for women. And there is theft and crime where there was never much crime before. I have not been there recently. But our relatives now come to the "wild west" for vacations rather than their homelands.

I'm sure that many Europeans will not agree with this

I'm from Belgium and feel just as safe as 5 or 10 years ago, always be careful with what you read in the media, they tend to focus on the small percentage of bad things that happen ...

[robbinsfamily]

Hi Andre we are from Nz and have the same plan, we have bought a boat in Italy through Abayachting (very good brokers excellent to deal with). We are going to pick up our boat in Sardinia in May and make our way slowly to Greece/turkey. We have 3 kids age 14,12 and 10 and are going to use NZ correspondence school. I know two other kiwi families doing the same thing this year. It's not an unreasonable plan it's a great adventure- you will love it! Feel free to keep in touch we would all love to meet other families so our kids have friends to play with! Pm us for email details if you want to connect!

[pyroray]

I know people that grew up living aboard. Sounds awesome, I could only dream of such an opportunity. Go for it.

[giant]

Good plan.

Check out legals as said already.

Get on a race crew in Sydney to gain experience, just find a relaxed boat/crew who are good to be around and stay away from the screamers.

Don't spoil your kids, make them do chores, be kind to them, discipline them when required or they will be nightmare spoiled brats when they are teenagers and make your life a living hell...

[NoDramas]

Originally Posted by LongRange

Hi! My first post here

I would like to ask for advice, please, regarding the plan outlined below.

My wife and I are both in our early 40s, with two young kids 9 and 6. Everyone gets along (at least in our immediate family!), and thankfully there are no relevant medical conditions. We are based in Sydney, Australia.

Our plan is to take half a year off work, go over to Italy or Croatia in mid-April, buy a sailing monohull in the 12m - 15m size range, and live aboard during the Mediterranean season. By mid-October, the boat would have to be hauled out for the winter, though we have not yet entirely dismissed the possibility of spending winter aboard safely in a marina somewhere.

While we are certainly not wealthy, money is hopefully not going to be a constraint, at least for a year. The plan is to limit ourselves to US$100K for the boat, or US$150K tops, which probably means something from the 2000-2005 timeframe, most likely either Jeanneau or Beneteau.

Our sailing experience is very limited, and that is the primary area of concern. Altogether, we have maybe 10 weeks aboard sailboats, with only a couple of weeks in command (bareboat charter in NZ). As of last month, we are both certified RYA Day Skippers, and for the past 15 years we have pottered around Sydney and the surrounding areas in a small 6m motorboat which I built from scratch (welded alloy). While short on practical experience (work somehow always gets in the way!), I have been reading books about boating and sailing for the past 30 years, and I am reasonably knowledgeable about electrical systems and mechanical maintenance.

We have been scouring Yachtworld and other brokerage sites for months, to the point where we are now hopefully sufficiently familiar with the market. The idea is to pick a boat, get a professional survey done before we land over in Europe in April, and then pay a deposit if the survey results are reasonable. Safety is the primary goal. If necessary, we would update the rigging, sails, liferaft, electronics... anything and everything which is important for the overall safety of the vessel and crew.

While underway, everyone would always be tethered and wearing auto-inflating lifejackets, with a personal AIS MOB system, and we would always stay in a safe harbour as long as necessary to wait for good weather. Both of us are cautious and conservative, especially when it comes to the safety of our children. Initially, the plan is to sail only short daylight hops until our experience gives us greater confidence. We would almost certainly be sticking to Italy, Croatia, and perhaps Western Greece, without any time pressure or schedule deadlines. Of course, the kids will be undertaking the official NSW Distance Education program.

Given those parameters, does this sound like a reasonable plan, or do you feel that the level of risk is too high given our lack of sailing experience?

Thanks for any and all input.

Andre

Great plan. The guys on La Vagabonde see YouTube had similar experience and made it from the Med to the south pacific. Check out toastfloats blog, 3 years with 3 girls + mum & dad. Just take it easy. As Peter Blake said "Fear + courage equals good judgement"

[daletournier]

Absolutely. Here's the thing, you can't know what you don't know, no rya course will prepare you for the adventure, it won't be what you think it will be, it will be worse and it will be better, than you think, it will be real.....I fully encourage you to jump right in and start an adventure, its easy not to, its easy to stay comfortable and do what everyone else does. When your 80 you will most likely not look back and say " I wish I hadn't done that". Don't wait for all the lights to be green, just go.

Ten years ago I didn't know what a bowline was, and what an incredible adventure the last 10 years has been.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Akka]

Do it!

[chuckr]

Sounds to us like a pretty reasonable idea. and a suggestion

First we have nothing to do with EuroMarine - but they did work on our boat when we had a couple of issues and we watched as they turned and cared for their charter boats and were duly impressed

Check with EuroMarine in Dubrovnik and see what they have for sale and tell them what you want to do. You may be able to make a deal and sail all summer and then have them put it on the hard for you and you or them or you and them can do the maintenance and get her ready for the following season - remember one thing as the season winds down and goes to nothing rates sometimes follow as people are just looking for a little work to tide them over

If I were in the area and wanted boat work done again I would go to EuroMarine - -- good luck with ever you decide to do

[bjymd]

I would disagree with the individual who claims that boats that have been in charter are poorly maintained! I purchased a boat that had been chartered (it was privately owned) and was in excellent condition. Clearly the survey is the key element in the purchase of any boat.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Seems a pretty well thought out plan covering all base's and importantly you've got yourselves the basics of boating/sailing out of the way.........

Kenomac's been out that way for a couple or three years now so should be a useful source of good and bad places.. but beware buddy boating with him.. he only likes going out if its blowing 30knots plus..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18

[Menlim3]

Hi Kenomac: During what season (date) was this crossing of Bonafacio strait? We are going at the end of June. Should we expect stuff like that? Thanks!

[LongRange]

Thank you! This has given us encouragement and food for thought, and each and every response is very much appreciated. To address some of the main points raised:

Survey: Yes, I do feel a bit confused about the best approach. On the one hand it seems as if now is the time to buy because interest in all the best bargains is already ramping up (judging by the increasing number of "sale pending" signs on Yachtworld), but due to work commitments I am unable to go to Europe before April. Thus the original plan was to think about paying for a survey if a boat looked particularly suitable in the photos, but now I have been dissuaded from that idea. I will wait until after I've been able to inspect the boat myself, as much as possible.

Schengen: I forgot to mention that my wife has spent months attempting to organize some type of longer stay visa, to no avail. Therefore, we will have to limit ourselves to 90 days in the Schengen zone, with Croatia and Montenegro being our "Schengen time recharge" locations. We are aware of the laws, and are planning to comply fully.

Gaining more experience while still in Sydney: Between working 12h days and frantic clearing out of the family home in preparation for renting, we have left it too late to squeeze in much sailing before we go. (Suggestion to others who find themselves thinking along similar lines - bank on at least six months prep time, even without counting the sailing practice.)

Day trips to start: Definitely! We will be watching all available weather forecasts, planning our routes very carefully, and planning to be safely in the next safe anchorage or marina long before nightfall.

Oversized ground tacke: Certainly. I think it was Steve Dashew in one of his books (all of which I've read) who recommended doubling what the tables say for a suitable weight of anchor, and then adding another 20% on top for good measure. Our ~1 ton motorboat currently has a 7.5kg Bruce with about 20m of 8mm chain, and I fully intend to buy a humourously large anchor for the sailboat.

Starting to sail too early in the season (April): I expect we will be lucky to buy a boat and get it ready to go by mid-May. I understand that the Med is not to be trifled with, especially outside of summer.

Why the Med and not say Queensland? We would like to show Europe to the kids - they have not yet been. Their parents are also looking forward to an overseas holiday. Boats seem literally twice as expensive in Australia.

Overworked children: I think it is fair to say that neither of our two children is burdened by an unhealthy work ethic . Hopefully a bit of regular schoolwork will give them structure and help them reintegrate into normal school life afterwards.

Anxious mothers: My own parents have been our most vocal critics, to the point where the relationship has been strained by their insistence that what we are planning is highly unfair and full of deleterious effects for our children. I empathise with others who also find themselves unsupported by their closest friends or relatives. It is not an easy thing to deal with.

Ex-charter boats: I am torn on this one. On the one hand it seems obvious that charter boats are treated like hire cars - badly. On the other, I suppose the more professional charter outfits would invest where it counts to ensure keels aren't falling off and masts aren't coming down. In reality, I don't know, and I will try to make a cold decision when I see the boat.


Thank you again everyone. Your collective wisdom has really helped this family. I will be reporting in from time to time.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Menlim3

Hi Kenomac: During what season (date) was this crossing of Bonafacio strait? We are going at the end of June. Should we expect stuff like that? Thanks!

Don't know if Keno will agree with this but my experience is to the W of Sardinia/Corsica the weather is determined by influences coming out of the Golfe de Lyon to the NW where systems form then sweep toward the SE every 3-5days or so.. whereas the E sides of the islands tend to have more weather from the N and E... Bonifaccio is basically an acceleration zone at times like these..
I've run into the Strait from the West on a NW'ly and come out the other side to a NNE'ly.. both islands are mountainous and this does divide systems.
Other times its been a mill pond and motor is the only way to make progress..
But.. then I'm just a passer through.. Keno spends his summers there.

[Menlim3]

Thanks Boatman. But I have the same question for you still. In summer should we expect the same strong nw or ne winds as in the other seasons?

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Don't know if Keno will agree with this but my experience is to the W of Sardinia/Corsica the weather is determined by influences coming out of the Golfe de Lyon to the NW where systems form then sweep toward the SE every 3-5days or so.. whereas the E sides of the islands tend to have more weather from the N and E... Bonifaccio is basically an acceleration zone at times like these..
I've run into the Strait from the West on a NW'ly and come out the other side to a NNE'ly.. both islands are mountainous and this does divide systems.
Other times its been a mill pond and motor is the only way to make progress..
But.. then I'm just a passer through.. Keno spends his summers there.

Unlike you we are not good sailors and watched for a good wx window to cross and had a motor sail across - we are to old to get beat up like that and not that good of sailors - and of course finding the entrance to Bonifaccio the first time is interesting and would prefer not doing in a raging gale