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Old 25-07-2012, 15:02   #1
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Is There an Inherent Defect in Sailors Brains ?

Please share you opinions.

Your plumber comes in...gives you a bill....You pay it

Home remodeler comes ....."""you pay the bill

Doctor, lawyer, professional, gets his boat worked on and

Then sends you a check for a third of the amount.

You go to the grocery and say the kiwi fruits and pomeganates.

I wont even start with vehicle mechanis

There is no discussion prior.........we are asked to take it on the jaw

Most. if not all, of the mechanics I am associated with will work with you

I used to get one of these a year....I ate it

So far this year...I have become very familiar the judicial process

If you are unsatisfied........stopping payments of checks is illegal

or "adjusting the checks". I have spent the better part of the last two

weeks with lawyers, both criminal, maritme ans states attorneys.

I stand by my craftsmanship....please allow me to ameliorate the problem.

If you think you could get that 5200 bonded fitting out with out damaging hull.....please give me a call....I will be you student

This submitted with no disrespect
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Old 25-07-2012, 15:11   #2
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

Quote:

If you think you could get that 5200 bonded fitting out with out damaging hull.....please give me a call....I will be you student

This sumitted with no disrespect
The 5200 problem is easy...I use debond and it will turn to mush. The problem of getting screwed is ageless and I can't offer any advice because people try to stick to me at least once a week. I resolve it by being firm but courteous.
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Old 25-07-2012, 15:35   #3
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

I only have one question, well a two part question. Do you provide an estimate for the work before starting and do you require a signature authorizing the work to be done before starting?

I used to do all kinds of work on a handshake or a gentleman's agreement. Not anymore. We will quote, schedule and process work without purchase orders. But nothing leaves the building without having a purchase order on file.
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Old 25-07-2012, 16:04   #4
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

Crusing sailors are a great bunch of people. They will generally help out other crusing sailors to an amazing degree sometimes putting themselves, or their boat in physical danger to help out.
They do seem to have a problem, however, paying professional people that work on their boat. Why I don't know.
I have got to know a few mechanics etc personally and they all all tell the same tale of late, or in some cases non existant payment.

There are a small number of professionals that rip is off, but they are in the minorority. Try and and find the best person for the job. Expose the sharks, by word of mouth, and on this forum, but to the great majority of others pay them well and on time. We need them to stay in business.

Oh and make sure your reward the good people at least give them a recommendation personaly and on the forum. Crusing people talk and I must have sent 100s of boats to good people and products.

If you have a problem row around the anchorage and find out who is good. The answers are surprisingly consistent.
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Old 25-07-2012, 20:12   #5
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

All good observtions...............................so far
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Old 25-07-2012, 20:27   #6
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

I have to laugh, tho it's not funny for me either, as I am in the remodeling business and people very often forget how to pay for hard and skilled work.
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Old 25-07-2012, 20:28   #7
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

I could go on a rant about the sloppy, unprofessional work I've seen done by so called 'experienced experts' or 'professionals' in San Diego at exhorbitant prices but I won't. Suffice to say after overhearing a well known electronics specialist talking with a diesel mechanic about how much they had skinned a wealthy but ignorant boatowner for, I was appalled to see the mechanic aboard the boat within days tearing down the motor.
I was fortunate living aboard there to know some really first class mechanical, electrical and brightwork folks who, when the task was beyond me, worked for a reasonable rates, did great work and became good friends who I recommended for numerous jobs.
It's a tough world out there and everyone isn't as gifted as their gab would indicate.
References are a good indicator of quality and price... Capt Phil
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Old 25-07-2012, 20:36   #8
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

Sorry to hear about your problems. As much as I hate to admit it, there are some sailors that are, shall we say, less than honest and ethical.

I have had sailors from a US cruising boat board my boat when I was ashore an steal all the nav gear. In this case I knew for sure because it was a deserted island in the Bahamas and there was only one other boat there and no one at all on the island. I came back from exploring and my stuff was gone as well as the other boat. They looked like your average boater on a nice boat. Unfortunately didn't get the name.

I had someone at a marina board my boat and steal the stereo. In a nice marina in Palm Beach FL.

Had similar things happen to a number of friends.

So from personal experience I've seen a few sailors that are crooks and bums. Guess in your business you see more boaters than most and are more exposed to monetary issues so get to find out which ones are the bums. Just hope it doesn't sour your attitude towards all sailors. Maybe I'm a Pollyanna but I still think most people and most sailors are honest and trustworthy.

Don't know about where you are but most states you can put a mechanics lien on a car or boat and the owner has to pay or can't get his car/boat. Mechanic gets paid first and if the owner thinks they have a beef then they have to go back after the fact to prove it.
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Old 26-07-2012, 11:19   #9
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Re: Is There an Inherent Defect in Sailors Brains ?

Captain Phil....thank you
(I dont quote previous posts...that wastes space)
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Old 26-07-2012, 11:50   #10
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Re: Is There an Inherent Defect in Sailors Brains ?

would be customer: This is what I want done and how I want it done.

me the service tech: Sorry I cannot help you.

wbc: But I'll pay you to do it this way! NAme your price.

mtst: Sorry but your way will cause endless grief and you will not remember I did exactly you demanded but you WILL tell everyone I ripped you off!

wbc: But Bob on someboat said this is how to do it.

mtst; Then please have Bob on someboat do it.

wbc: but everyone says you do really good work.

mtst: Thanks for the compliment but I cannot help you.
ARRRGGGHHH!
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Old 26-07-2012, 11:57   #11
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seahag View Post
I have to laugh, tho it's not funny for me either, as I am in the remodeling business and people very often forget how to pay for hard and skilled work.
Sign over the door.

Quote:
Skilled work is not cheap.
Cheap work is not skilled.
We only do skilled work.
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Old 26-07-2012, 12:10   #12
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Re: Is there an inherent defect in sailors brains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldsusa View Post
Sign over the door.
Reminds me of another sign I've seen.


We can do it fast
We can do it cheap
We can do it good

But you only get to pick two out of three.
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Old 26-07-2012, 13:54   #13
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Re: Is There an Inherent Defect in Sailors Brains ?

I have been sailing for about a 3 years and owned a boat for a little over a year and have only dealt with a couple of yards and people working on my boat.
I had an experience in the last fall as a cruising sailor where I felt I got overcharged. Tried to resolve the issue. No Joy
So I got my boat towed to another yard and didn't deal with the original yard again.

I had a push rod bent in my engine due to a plugged exhost hose and getting raw water backed up into the engine. I have worked with diesel engines all my life on tractors. I completely removed all but the motor mounts and had the yard remove the engine because I was 3000 miles from home and had nothing to lift the engine out. They said I would not be charged dockage and my boat was there for just over a week when they got time to pull the engine. I was living on the boat and had noting to do on the boat and I didn't want to be in the way so I spent some time away, but I returned every couple hours. I only saw them working on the boat once. There were three people charging $70/hr. working on it the one time about 3pm when I came by. They quit work at 4:30 each day. They removed the engine and then bolted the engine to a pallet and shipped it off to be rebuilt.

When I got the bill they had the three guys working on the boat for 8 hours each and the total bill came to $1700. I knew they were padding the hours for sure. When I confronted them telling them I had come by at least 5 times during the day their response was to say these people were not on the boat but preparing to remove the engine. I know they were full of crap and I told them so. I had a friend with a boat and we towed my boat over to another yard.

The other yard set the engine in for me a couple of months later after it was rebuilt with two guys, it cost me $250 and $200/month for dockage while I was home and they had a labor rate of $90/hr. I did the work to install the engine and got it running and aligned. This other yard was good at giving me advice no charge and sold me some parts I needed at a reasonable rate they were great.

So to get my engine lifted out cost $1700 and to get it set back in $250 (+$400 dockage).

I eventually payed the $1700 bill because I didn't know what else to do. I did find out later that this yard has a rep for overcharging.

In my normal life I have dealt with the same mechanics for my airplane, pickups, cars and tractors for the last 30 years or more. I know they are good and I have a good relationship with them. We some times have issues but resolve them no problem, in an air of mutual respect.

So can anybody tell me what I should have done. I know as I cruise from place to place I will always have to deal with people I haven't a long relationship with. I know I'm spoiled by the people that I usually work with.

I agree with an earlier post that most people are good and honest.

Thanks
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Old 26-07-2012, 14:00   #14
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Re: Is There an Inherent Defect in Sailors Brains ?

When you're paying upwards of $75 an hour, you should be able to expect experienced, professional work. Unfortunately, this is becoming harder and harder to find. I always get an estimate and try to work with those who can do an honest job. When I find an honest contractor that actually knows what he's doing, I'll stick with him. Too often you get some kid that know less about what he's doing than you do. Seems when a good contractor get a good reputation, he's then forced to hire others that may or may not do a good job.
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Old 26-07-2012, 14:51   #15
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Re: Is There an Inherent Defect in Sailors Brains ?

I'm more than happy to bend over backwards for a customer, but I won't bend over forward.
I've been pretty lucky with the vast majority of my customers and consider it to be a privilage to work in an environment I enjoy and a bigger privilage to have made a lot of friends of my customers. To me my business IS repeat customers and I'm willing to do what it takes to make them happy. But there seems to be those rare few that crop up. This year so far there have only been two and their names and their boats name goes on the shared list. After being stung many times over the years, I've developed a sense about these type of customers and now usually have them pegged at the first meeting. It's at the least cash up front for parts with these types if I even decide to do any work for them.
I don't apologise for making a fair profit. I didn't start a business risking my families financial security and working long hours, weekends and late into the night so someone else can go boating for free. Running a small business is not easy, nor is it cheap, and with the current economy, ever more governmental restrictions and taxes both local and federal, insurance requirements, licensing, overhead, marina requirements, and a kid in college, it gets tougher every year. Getting stung by a customer in a forty foot toy that knows ahead of time they are going to screw you bites even worse.
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