Is Singlehanding >24 Hrs. Morally Wrong?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by conachair

If you have to ask, you'll never know why anyone would want to head offshore alone on a little boat

Though I'm starting to feel a little selfish not sharing the joy a bit more, maybe couchsurfing rather than the crew share places though. Show some people what's it's like who would be unlikely to get the chance otherwise.

Maybe one day...

It was not I.. it was Dockhead who asked the question then proceeded to answer it in his next post..
Pay attention to the thread not just the last thing posted.
If after all these years you have not noticed I'm a solo sailor except on deliveries somethings wrong with your attention span..

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by mud bug

I for one am so tired of people trying to legislate or push their ideas no matter how unsubstantiated they may be upon others. It always starts with "I FEEL" and then follows with what other people should not be allowed to do. I don't single hand, but I will not stand in the way of others who have the freedom to do as they please. Too many people feel that they know more than others and therefore have the right to tell them what to do. STOP IT!

So do you think there is zero chance of a singlehander increasing the risk of a collision with another vessel?

I know that clearly the answer is no, a boat (singlehanded or crewed) that isn't keeping a watch increases the risk and danger to other boats. Since that increases the risk to all other boaters then those boaters clearly have the right to express an opinion on the issue and whether or not that increase in risk is acceptable or not.

[boatman61]

If a risk is unacceptable then its time to stop single handing.. or stop sailing on crewed boats..
Risk is a fact of life.

[robert sailor]

In my experience single handers were involved in more incident/accidents than crewed boats on a per capita basis. I don't know if there is data to support my experiences or not but those are my experiences. I'm not suggesting that they were damaging other boats, mostly themselves, again in my experience. I can't really have anything negative to say about single handing as I've done it myself from time to time but it's something i had to do and not something I wanted to do, that and the fact that I'm not great at it and I'm not in love with my own company for days on end.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

In my experience single handers were involved in more incident/accidents than crewed boats on a per capita basis. I don't know if there is data to support my experiences or not but those are my experiences. I'm not suggesting that they were damaging other boats, mostly themselves, again in my experience. I can't really have anything negative to say about single handing as I've done it myself from time to time but it's something i had to do and not something I wanted to do, that and the fact that I'm not great at it and I'm not in love with my own company for days on end.

So.. is it a case that singlehanders are more honest about their experiences..???

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So.. is it a case that singlehanders are more honest about their experiences..???

Don't have a clue Boatie..maybe. Just in one corner of the Western Caribbean there were 3 single handers that ended up on the reefs last year, quite a few when you consider there are really not that many single handers. I guess it's like everything else there are real competent single handers and some not so much. I have a sense you probably belong in the first group and I'm probably in the second group, lol.

[boatman61]

I hope no one is taking my tongue in cheek remarks to heart.
Its just that from my point of view singlehanders who do ocean passages are confident in their abilities (coastal harbour hoppers excluded) to operate and maintain their vessels unassisted from navigation to engines to dismastings and survive.. if not they would follow the route of the majority who post for crew.. Must have strong mechanical or navigational or boat/sail handling or cooking skills.. crew are for filling needs even if only for increased illusions of security..
As for boats on reefs in poorly charted waters methinks theres been a few crewed boats suffered the same fate.. a couple or three last year.
How often is one told to think outside the box yet everywhere one looks individuality is discouraged by the 'Team' mantra..
Or.. dont do as you think.. Do as I say..
Me Skipper.. You Crew..

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Don't have a clue Boatie..maybe. Just in one corner of the Western Caribbean there were 3 single handers that ended up on the reefs last year, quite a few when you consider there are really not that many single handers. I guess it's like everything else there are real competent single handers and some not so much. I have a sense you probably belong in the first group and I'm probably in the second group, lol. [emoji2]

Harumph. In my righteous world, I think it's immoral to sail singlehanded when one doesn't have a clue how to do it safely FWIW, "safely" does not imply there's no risk; it means it can be done in compliance with regulations....

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Harumph. In my righteous world, I think it's immoral to sail singlehanded when one doesn't have a clue how to do it safely FWIW, "safely" does not imply there's no risk; it means it can be done in compliance with regulations....

Ha ha, I didn't say I wasn't safe as I believe I always am, I simply said I wasn't that good at it. I set that "good" bar quite high because I've seen some really good single handers in action..say someone like Alex Thomas on Hugo Boss. I simply suggested that I didn't fit into that group. I have managed to sail offshore for well over 35 years without any accidents so my personal concept of safety is backed up by performance. That of course and the fact that I like having company when at sea for long periods of time.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

There is basis in the Colregs for suggesting that the long term singlehander cannot maintain an effective watch 24/7. No one disputes that. But is it immoral to singlehand because it may place other people at risk?

Only if it's going to in congested area boat area. For the most you never see anyone after out in the open except for entrances to a shipping type port.

[Suijin]

"Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right." ~ Isaac Asimov

Is it morally wrong to single-hand? That's subjective, based on your own personal morality. Morals are personal. My morals do not prevent me from single-handing. Your morals might dictate that it is wrong, but that's not my business.

It is ethically wrong? Well that's a different discussion.

I feel just as safe if not more so when I single-hand as when I'm on a crewed boat, maybe safer. I'm up every 15 minutes to check. In some cases I'll go 20 minutes. If I'm way way out, a bit longer depending on the conditions. The issue is managing fatigue and alertness. Can that be done long term while "maintaining a proper watch"? No, it cannot. But by then you're so far out there that your risk is getting run over by something big, that may not even notice it ran you over.

When I'm on watch on a crewed boat I scan the horizon every 10 minutes. I know for a fact that most others do not do that. I've come on deck to find the on watch person asleep. or asked them when they last scanned the horizon and received a dumbfounded "Why would I do that?" look.

I hope Boatpoker and others that are convinced that it is morally wrong don't ever exceed the speed limit in their cars. It's statistically proven that exceeding the speed limit puts other motorists at substantially greater risk. Period.

Frankly, we all put ourselves and others people at risk almost every day, in the things we do, in the things we don't do. And as cruisers we do it a lot more than most by the simple act of being on a boat. If single handing is morally wrong, then so is cruising itself by the very same logic. It's just a matter of degree.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by boatman61

It was not I.. it was Dockhead who asked the question then proceeded to answer it in his next post..
Pay attention to the thread not just the last thing posted.
If after all these years you have not noticed I'm a solo sailor except on deliveries somethings wrong with your attention span..

The answer wasn't actually directed at you, but to all those who need to ask in the first place....

[Don C L]

Morally...hmmm... it's been a long time since my philosophy classes.
It's probably morally wrong to ride a bike while inebriated; no one would pass a law allowing it either... but the risk is far greater to the bicyclist. I would propose that the degree of immorality increases with the cube of the velocity and mass of the vehicle.
I hope none of my philosophy profs are reading this.. they may take back that "C" I got.

[CSY Man]

Why do people sail solo over long distances?
To prove something?
To escape from something?
No idea, it never appealed to me, or made any sense.
Obviously more risk if you get sick or have an accident onboard. (Or fall overboard)
Also in violation of the COLREGS.
A proper look out is not only to avoid colliosion, but also to look for emergency signals from vessels in distress. (Rafts, life boats included)

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Suijin

... and others that are convinced that it is morally wrong don't ever exceed the speed limit in their cars. It's statistically proven that exceeding the speed limit puts other motorists at substantially greater risk. Period....

Thank you for for pointing out the obvious. I think the discussion comes down to whether the poster has ever singlehanded and whether that was a good experience for them. The increased risk due to moderate speeding is morally acceptable because we like getting there in less time. Careful singlehanding is no different, an the risk to others obviously less.