Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

[transmitterdan]

This forum has the greatest variety of cruisers (active, was, wanna, etc.) than other forums. Typically it's 10X at any given moment. So something is going right here. And with so many different people you are bound to find a few kindred spirits and a few with different chromosomes than what you may be used to. That's probably why it keeps growing and that's a good thing. Appreciate the diversity and consider it a success in life to be able to quietly ignore the trolls. Most everybody else does.

[rwidman]

I don't see any significant change. Actually, I stayed away for a while because of the nastiness and name calling.

Realize that people will have differences of opinion and also that some suggestions from some members are seriously wrong and would be dangerous to implement.

If a suggestion is inaccurate or dangerous, we would hope that someone would point this out. The original poster may be upset at this but i's going to happen and must happen. Otherwise bad things might happen to the people who took the original advice.

[BobFord]

In my experience every forum or blogging site seems to attract detractors.

Usually politically motivated !. However , this site has little to do with politics and I have the opinion that some bloggers have too much time on their hands.

Best tactic is to ignore any taunts and hope that they ' go away' ( must maintain the clean language status of this site !! )

If an exhibitionist is ignored , then his/ her efforts soon fizzle out .

[buzzstar]

I believe some of the influencing factors in the apparent downhill slope are controllable: CF should stop including information about the number of posts, and maybe the join poster's join date. There seems to be a race (actually multiple races) about who can post the most, and off point and snarky responses count as much as the useful ones. I admit the process has influenced me, although this one is absolutely "for real."

[OldFrog75]

I'm not bothered by occasional thread degradation and mud slinging but then I'm most likely desensitized by all the time I spend on sports blogs which can be 10 times worse.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

This is a very interesting subject, and one I have thought about so many times, not just in regard to CF, but other online sites I frequent. I often find the online world difficult to function in for a variety of reasons, but bottom line is that, for me, it combines so many elements that I truly enjoy; communicating with people from diverse backgrounds, writing, learning new information, being exposed to different viewpoints; so I carry on and try to navigate it all without getting run over. (Not easy sometimes.) Me, too, Becky. I really got flamed right after I joined in my own right (at first, I had posted under Jim's avatar) and I found it quite uncomfortable. And, it was a critical comment. It is hard for me sometimes, to figure out how to write what is intended as a caution, and not appear to be demeaning.

For me, I often have to monitor my comments because in real life I have a rather dry and sarcastic sense of humor, which people who know me totally get, but it doesn't always translate well into the written word, especially if you forget to attach your little smiley faces. I think over time I have identified most of the others here and on other forums who share my acerbic wit and appreciate them for having the skill to get it out there without getting clobbered. Boy, you got that right! Many times a remark can either be taken as an attemp at humor, which doesn't translate well to the written words without the twinkle in the eye that would be your cue if you were face to face!

The thing that absolutely confounds me....that, being a people person, I honestly do not understand, are why there are so many people on a SOCIAL forum who seem to have the most unsocial tendancies. They say they are just here to "learn," and don't care about being social. There are so many informational sources out there that require no personal interaction with others, you can read to your hearts content, watch videos, download tutorials, and gather any and all kind of information you could ever want, without ever having the need to be rude to another person. So why do they? Why are there some people on this forum (and most others) who I can honestly say I don't think have ever seen make a single comment of a positive nature, even though they post frequently. If they followed my Mama's advice and "didn't say anything if they couldn't say anything nice," they wouldn't have a single post on here anywhere.

I understand that we all come from different life experiences and viewpoints, and I find that to be so very interesting, but there are so many who turn that into a basis of being mean. Instead of just saying "this is what I do" or "this is how I do it," they have to extend that to say, "this is what I do and you are all idiots who do it or see it differently." They either don't understand that by making sweeping, generalized, insulting comments there are going to be actual, real people here who are going to be saying, "wtf??"

On the thread where we were talking about Facebook. One poster, rather than just saying they don't use Facebook and don't like it had to extend those comments to say that anyone who does has "frustrated adolescent tendancies." Or the thread where we were talking about sailing boats with simple systems and someone had to say, "the only reason people sail simple boats is because they can't afford boats with the good stuff on them." Or the ongoing, never friggin ending, posts where there are a couple of posters who take every opportunity to say that people who spend time restoring boats do so because they don't know how to sail, or don't really want to sail. And of course I don't even need to go into the gun threads, anchor threads, keel threads, production boat threads, health care debate, composting head issue. OMG........

From politics, to religion, to diet, to type of boat, there is nothing that can't be criticized in the most insulting of ways. I guess it's just human nature, but not a part of human nature that I find particularly attractive, and it is truly a stumbling block to being "social." People vary considerably in what offends them, and also in what "hurts" their feelings. I see it a lot in what bothers me doesn't bother Jim at all. Some of us are more vulnerable to negativity and others just shine it on.

So, I find that I'll initially find a thread interesting and try to get involved, and then a couple of the rude posters will come skidding into it with their forked tongue (keyboard) ablazing, and rather than get my Irish up and take the chance of getting moderated I just check out again and move onto the next thing, because once you get one of them in there the only people that remain after awhile are those who enjoy arguing with them. To me that thread is dead after that. Yes, it's tempting to just back out. What I've been doing lately, is plow on past the ugliness, and try to find the info. This was particularly difficult about Gil and his boat, but was there also when Rebel Heart had to be scuttled.

Tbere are a couple of threads going over on Sailnet started by people who used to be on this form who want to have everyone believe that it's better there. Their reasoning is that this forum is over moderated. I for one think it's unfortunate that we as reasonable, intelligent adults need that amount of moderation. Well, just maybe, some of us are the reasonable, intelligent adults--or wannabees, and others have different goals that may involve putting themselves up by putting others down.


Boatie likened it to a sailor's bar. I think that is a good analogy. So the question is, why don't we talk to each other here the way we would actually talk to each other if we were sitting face to face across that bar. I venture that a lot of these rude posters would never in a million years talk to another sailor in person they way they do here on the forum. If they did, I dare say some here would find themselves drinking alone.

Becky, I just wanted to say that I appreciated this post. You wrote beautifully about how I feel, and I appreciate it. Thank you.

I am sorry if my anecdotes offend anyone. A lot, cruisers hang out on each others boats and "talk story." I usually offer them as a supporting basis for what I am writing about. I am not going to stop, but just please skip over them if you don't like them.

Ann

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by morven55

I am fairly new to this forum and have often times wondered why I continue to be so fascinated by the controversy surrounding the diversity of opinion found here.

I have only started one thread, but I made it quite clear that I wanted current real time responses to a specific question...and the responses were positive, current, personal, and gave me the information necessary to make a decision.

When people get off topic it is not always a bad thing; sometimes a conversation takes a different course, sometimes it stays on topic. The OP always has the option to re-direct or ask the comments to stay on topic. That is what I would do...if people become offensive, either ignore them, ask them to please refrain or as a last resort hit the panic button. I made a couple of mistakes here and realized I was being rude and in one case apologized. It is easy to get along with 99% of people.

We are not all alike, nor should we expect everyone to share our ideals of behavior, but this is a world wide forum, and I for one find all the comments interesting at worst and informative at best. To expect people to conform to one standard of thought and behavior, is, to me, even more offensive than the occasional nasty divisive comment.

To any women feeling that they don't belong or are being excluded from a boys club, I say you are hanging around with the wrong people. I have never witnessed that and there are a lot of women sailors, boat owners, and accomplished females here in the PNW, from Oregon to Alaska. It would not occur to me to judge someone by anything other than their skill, knowledge or competency.

Sometimes I wonder if anyone even pays attention to my observations or advice, and then I will get a thank you or some small nicety, and it all becomes worthwhile.

Focus on the positive, excuse the negative, for I think we all mean well...or at the very least are looking for some sort of validation. We share one thing in common...we are all human.

Good one.. especially re the ladies..
They tend to take a pounding on the crew section..
Boat Bunny took it on the chin tho'..

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Good one.. especially re the ladies..
They tend to take a pounding on the crew section..
Boat Bunny took it on the chin tho'..

Yep they do...Micheal Stipe is that you?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

I believe some of the influencing factors in the apparent downhill slope are controllable: CF should stop including information about the number of posts, and maybe the join poster's join date. There seems to be a race (actually multiple races) about who can post the most, and off point and snarky responses count as much as the useful ones. I admit the process has influenced me, although this one is absolutely "for real."

Mixed feelings about this one..
In some ways I like it.. it shows I'm interested enough in the site to participate..
However others make judgements because of my tally.. got to be up there amongst the highest.. that anyone with those kind of posts must be behind the keyboard 24/7...
Nope.. sometimes I sleep..
Just don't judge a posters knowledge and mileage, or lack of it by his tally..
Its the quality of the advice that counts.. even ass-holes can be smart

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Yep they do...Micheal Stipe is that you?

Naah.. he's a bit younger.. and better looking..

[oldragbaggers]

Ann Cate, thank you for that nice response. Considering all the years, and miles, that you and Jim have under your keel I can't imagine why anyone would think it okay to "flame" you on a cruising forum. The two of you have so much earned knowledge and experience that, even that with which someone disagrees is still valid just because it's authentic and true for you.

On the subject of disagreement I just want to be clear that I have absolutely no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I really am interested in all the variety of viewpoints and experiences here on this forum, and I have learned a lot and changed my own approach on a number of occasions because of things I have learned here. How boring the world would be if every one did everything just like me. What would there be to learn? If all we wanted to know is our own opinion and experience what reason would there be to experience new things? My beef is with people who can't express their difference of opinion without calling into question the character and/or intelligence of everyone with whom they disagree.

As for the hiding of post counts and join date....I'm not sure I understand why that would make anything better. Do people really care that much what their post count is? It never really occurred to me that this might play into the way people respond. I kind of like knowing how long someone has "been around" and how much they have contributed. As far as the quality of their contributions, I am no seasoned world cruiser, and don't have nearly the experience of some on the forum, but I have enough to be able to know BS when I smell it. I think for the most part those people expose themselves after awhile.

I have never put anyone on ignore. I have only considered it a couple of times but I thought that it might make the threads harder to understand to have some content "missing." I'm not that thin skinned that I can't take seeing someone's post even though it might annoy me.

I found the conversation about the "women's forum" interesting. I joined one on FB as well, and if someone lasted a week they outlasted me. I think I unjoined in about 2 days. Yes, everyone was very friendly and supportive, but..... the constant notifications from the two million responses to every post just because everyone had to chime in with some variation of "me too" was a little too much for me.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

When one offers an opinion, regardless of how well reasoned it might be, it seems that there are plenty of posters that are willing to point out the deficiencies in the reasoning no matter how small. Straining gnats and swallowing camels.

That's a good way to put it!

[laika]

Online opinions and arguments seem to often be missing the empathic, tempering qualities that can sometimes be observed in the real world.

Fortunately the real world is still full of flowers and sunshine. But the digital world we created is godless. We need to plant more smilies

[tinkrman69]

I've only been a member for a short time. From the beginning there have been posters who seem to need to be sarcastic and negative. I go up to a marina in just about any location where cruisers gather and find the same thing. I go to a local hangout where craftsman gather and I find the same thing. I go to a social gathering and find the same thing.

People are people, none of us are perfect and in that lies the only thing that is the same. I'm glad everyone is different, life would suck if we were all the same. I also have choice and I can choose to read, digest and be affected by someones post or I can move on and hope they find the peace that is only a choice away. I choose peace... most times... and when the pain gets bad enough, from not choosing it I can step back and choose again. Forgiveness goes a long way towards my own peace of mind

[Southern Star]

I'm with MarkJ - slagging people's choice in boats should be an offence under the 'be nice rule'. Its like slagging someone's significant other - he or she may have faults, but we love them just the same ane we get our backs up if someone insults them, even if there is some basis for the insult.

Of course, there is also the school-boyish 'mine is bigger/better than yours' crowd. Even if they are not directly attacking your choice of boat, they take pains to point out how much better their's is. Who cares?

Brad