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Old 14-02-2016, 13:44   #226
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I'm suggesting boatie be given his own forum to postulate and pontificate and rule as he sees fit, and we can all get into an in depth discussion of beer there. It could be a subforum of the off topic forum.

Maybe this was said tongue in cheek, but I was a bit stunned reading it and feel compelled to say something. There are posters that are more technical and "dry" (like myself I suspect), and others that are more "free spirited" for lack of a better term, and I think Boatie may fit into the latter category. However, over the years I have found myself continually amazed at his ability to get to the heart of a matter and often impart some truly heavy wisdom in a manner that went clear over my head the first time I read it. Just because it is not expressed in the manner I would use doesn't mean there isn't hard won experience (both sailing and life) buried in the words. I think it would be a great loss to marginalize someone on these forums simply because they provide some flavor...

On a related note, I think one of the strengths of this forum is the diversity... of experience, of culture, and of viewpoint. It saddened me to see Jedi post above that he self-imposed a one year "sabbatical" from CF, I wondered what had happened when he disappeared and I have learned a great deal from him. While his manner of conveying advice and experience may sometimes seem blunt to me, I believe a lot if not all of that is likely a cultural misperception on my part. I worked with a Dutch gentleman that I thought was condescending and often unnecessarily rude, but over time (and many beers) I realized that offending was definitely not his intent and that cultural directness and language differences led to this perception. We are now close friends, and I value that directness.

So thanks Boatie for opening this Yanks eyes a bit wider... welcome back Jedi, I look forward to learning more from you... and I for one will try to assume the best in a post(er).
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Old 14-02-2016, 14:23   #227
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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I think you have mixed up my own opinions and forum admins'/owners' goals. What I think is less relevant than what they think as they run CF not me. That was my point.

As far as"not seeing the real bullying" I caveated this by saying "other than outing one's names/addresses or showing up at their door, etc, etc". I believe if one VOLUNTARILY registers on a public forum with their real name and/or other easily identifiable personal information one is no different than someone opening their front door wide and declaring to all passersby that they have X amount of $$ inside and will be going to work soon. IMO no difference whatsoever. And if the current generation does not think these things through and subjects themselves to the consequences of this thinking, or rather lack thereof, it is not exclusively "bully's" fault but their own as well. Kind of like a person running across a 6 lane highway and then wondering why they got hit and demanding that someone puts a stop to all these people "trying to run him over".

PS How can any interaction between 2 or more anonymous posters be classified as "bullying"? Again other than outing, against the person's will, their names and other personal info.
I've already given one example.

Have you not heard of people committing suicide over online bullying? That is what prompted the legislation in the first place.

Just because you cannot imagine it doesn't mean it doesn't happen every day.
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Old 14-02-2016, 14:26   #228
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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I vote that we just let Boatie write whatever he wants, wherever he wants. At least he's writing it while sailing.
How?

Via satellite? I think that when he posts here, he's usually on shore.
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Old 14-02-2016, 14:47   #229
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pirate Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
How?

Via satellite? I think that when he posts here, he's usually on shore.
Or passing Gibraltar.. a mobile hotspot has its use's..

Just when you thought it was safe... eheheheheheheheheheeeee
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Old 14-02-2016, 14:52   #230
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Interesting take. A regular contributor recently went to another site and one of his complaints was his perception of unfettered encouragement of newbies to buy a boat and sail the world.

Like most things, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.
I belong to a few motorcycle forums, one of which is privately owned with no advertising. It is very common for a 16 year old kid wanting to buy (for example) a brand new Suzuki GSXR 160 HP super-bike as his first motorcycle. On the for profit forums the thread generates lots of inputs to the kid as far as where to buy the bike, what helmet to buy etc. The private forum starts out by calling the kid a moron or a troll and goes downhill from there, eventually a few people will give some realistic advice.

The friendly forums actually encourage the newbies to jump in head first because, even though a few people might be the voice of reason, the kid is only paying attention to the encouraging posts.

It seems that the boating community hates to talk about how much money it costs to keep up a boat. For example, there is one maker specific forum where you have to be an owner before you can even post and members are forbidden to discuss repair prices.
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Old 14-02-2016, 14:53   #231
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Maybe this was said tongue in cheek, but I was a bit stunned reading it and feel compelled to say something. There are posters that are more technical and "dry" (like myself I suspect), and others that are more "free spirited" for lack of a better term, and I think Boatie may fit into the latter category. However, over the years I have found myself continually amazed at his ability to get to the heart of a matter and often impart some truly heavy wisdom in a manner that went clear over my head the first time I read it. Just because it is not expressed in the manner I would use doesn't mean there isn't hard won experience (both sailing and life) buried in the words. I think it would be a great loss to marginalize someone on these forums simply because they provide some flavor...
Who said anything about marginalizing? That's nothing close to what I said.

I think you, and possibly others have taken my post in the opposite way in which it was intended. I suppose you'd have to see how it all worked out on the other forum to understand.

They basically gave the elder statesman a moderator position and his own forum, which was given much broader latitude to discuss off topic stuff, rather than having repeated off topic posts in a focused thread, like what has happened here.

It wasn't limiting the person, it was giving him a place to hold discussions far wider than that forum normally allowed. Greater freedom, not limitations.

Does that make more sense?

The suggestion was partially tongue in cheek, but I'm absolutely serious about how it made a major difference on that website. I guess it's just hard to imagine it.
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:15   #232
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Originally Posted by RajaNagaLaut View Post
I've never looked at the multi vs mono threads
Problem is that many threads in the multi section of this site start out as straight discussions of interest and relevance to multihuhll sailors. They subsequently become the dreaded "multi v mono threads."

It generally happens something like this:

1. A post about cruising catamarandesign and behaviour in following seas.

2. Enter people who have never sailed a cruising catamaran who then expound at great length on the design of sportive monohulls.

3. Previous useful discussion degenerates into completely off topic discussion along the lines of "I would rather not sail than sail a sluggish boat".

Strangely, we never see this same thing occur in reverse to threads in the monohull section of the site. Maybe that shows where the problem lies.
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:22   #233
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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Who said anything about marginalizing? That's nothing close to what I said.

I think you, and possibly others have taken my post in the opposite way in which it was intended. I suppose you'd have to see how it all worked out on the other forum to understand.

They basically gave the elder statesman a moderator position and his own forum, which was given much broader latitude to discuss off topic stuff, rather than having repeated off topic posts in a focused thread, like what has happened here.

It wasn't limiting the person, it was giving him a place to hold discussions far wider than that forum normally allowed. Greater freedom, not limitations.

Does that make more sense?

The suggestion was partially tongue in cheek, but I'm absolutely serious about how it made a major difference on that website. I guess it's just hard to imagine it.

It does if yer point is you'd like to see less off-topic "intrusions." The way you've suggested is damming with faint praise.
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:27   #234
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Please consider my editing
Honorary sub-editor.....

That made me laugh

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Old 14-02-2016, 15:30   #235
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Originally Posted by Pyxis156 View Post
Maybe this was said tongue in cheek, but I was a bit stunned reading it and feel compelled to say something. There are posters that are more technical and "dry" (like myself I suspect), and others that are more "free spirited" for lack of a better term, and I think Boatie may fit into the latter category. However, over the years I have found myself continually amazed at his ability to get to the heart of a matter and often impart some truly heavy wisdom in a manner that went clear over my head the first time I read it. Just because it is not expressed in the manner I would use doesn't mean there isn't hard won experience (both sailing and life) buried in the words. I think it would be a great loss to marginalize someone on these forums simply because they provide some flavor...

On a related note, I think one of the strengths of this forum is the diversity... of experience, of culture, and of viewpoint. It saddened me to see Jedi post above that he self-imposed a one year "sabbatical" from CF, I wondered what had happened when he disappeared and I have learned a great deal from him. While his manner of conveying advice and experience may sometimes seem blunt to me, I believe a lot if not all of that is likely a cultural misperception on my part. I worked with a Dutch gentleman that I thought was condescending and often unnecessarily rude, but over time (and many beers) I realized that offending was definitely not his intent and that cultural directness and language differences led to this perception. We are now close friends, and I value that directness.

So thanks Boatie for opening this Yanks eyes a bit wider... welcome back Jedi, I look forward to learning more from you... and I for one will try to assume the best in a post(er).
Very well put. That spiteful 'suggestion' landed the poster straight on my ignore list.

I know what you mean about a conflict of cultures too. I once worked in a factory (mostly full of wonderful Brummie women on the production lines), and a production foreman seemed so aggressive, and over quite a while, that it got to the point of me almost decking him, and being hauled off by the Brummie ladies, to have it explained to me by them that this guy was actually being really friendly, because he liked me, BUT, he was from the Black Country (Midlands) and they have the weirdest sense of humour of any place on the Planet. Once I understood where he was coming from, much to my surprise, we got on like a house on fire.

Since then, I have had to ask a few people "Are you from the Black Country?" and all of them have said "Yes! How could you tell?" (which allowed me to explain the situation to others, who were also on the point of decking them).

Boaty is definitely good people. No getting away from that. I came to the same conclusion about him as you, very quickly.

But Shhhh! Don't let him know, it might go to his head.
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:40   #236
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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What a great thread.

As one of those mods who has interacted with some due to necessity, it is refreshing to read your constructive comments here. It is also great to see many who are commenting who one may not see all that often, and yes, we are listening. Will we be able to satisfy all?

Nope, and we don't pretend to either. We do however, value this type of constructive critique, and particularly interesting is that very few comments in what could have become a contentious thread needed moderating.

What a great group we have here, from all perspectives. Thank you for being part of our community, thank you for the expertise given, and thank you for the questions. We all were neophytes at some point; there are no stupid questions, there are some answers that are given that the poster should think twice about before pressing answer at times.

And thank you for some of the banter that IS part of the community.

Remember, no politics unless it is directly related to a sailing topic, and....

Stay nice.

well said

spoken

doh typed!
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:50   #237
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Very well put. That spiteful 'suggestion' landed the poster straight on my ignore list.

I know what you mean about a conflict of cultures too. I once worked in a factory (mostly full of wonderful Brummie women on the production lines), and a production foreman seemed so aggressive, and over quite a while, that it got to the point of me almost decking him, and being hauled off by the Brummie ladies, to have it explained to me by them that this guy was actually being really friendly, because he liked me, BUT, he was from the Black Country (Midlands) and they have the weirdest sense of humour of any place on the Planet. Once I understood where he was coming from, much to my surprise, we got on like a house on fire.

Since then, I have had to ask a few people "Are you from the Black Country?" and all of them have said "Yes! How could you tell?" (which allowed me to explain the situation to others, who were also on the point of decking them).

Boaty is definitely good people. No getting away from that. I came to the same conclusion about him as you, very quickly.

But Shhhh! Don't let him know, it might go to his head.
You put a lot of people on your ignore list don't you Rabbit. His suggestion wasn't being spiteful.
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:52   #238
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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It seems that the boating community hates to talk about how much money it costs to keep up a boat. For example, there is one maker specific forum where you have to be an owner before you can even post and members are forbidden to discuss repair prices.
One of the mistakes I made in my life, was accepting an invitation from Porsche to go up to the Motorshow at Earl's Court.

That involved being trapped on a Coach all the way to London with a load of Porsche owners.

All they could do pretty much all the way up, was talk about how their servicing costs were so expensive, and how much they spent on repairs every year.

Outrageous sums of money, and somehow, they seemed to think it was a good thing!

It was quickly apparent too that they were the sort of Porsche drivers that can't even drive properly (most seem to bottle out at 60mph), and may be better suited to driving a Reliant Robin 3 wheeler.

The show itself was quite good (very nice sushi, etc, but it would have been better if they had cooked the fish), but rather than endure the journey back with these people, I got a cab to a hotel overnight, and caught a train back in the morning.

Unfortunately the Allsorts it takes to make the World, sometimes aren't the Liquorice ones.
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Old 14-02-2016, 16:13   #239
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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I've already given one example.

Have you not heard of people committing suicide over online bullying? That is what prompted the legislation in the first place.

Just because you cannot imagine it doesn't mean it doesn't happen every day.
You seem to have an agenda and keep ignoring my caveat. In these examples of young (or not so young) kids committing suicide all of them involved actual known names, cliques, schools, etc. I have yet to hear of any one particular suicide where all parties were anonymous and did not interact in person in any way in real life. I may be wrong on that but so far no one has presented to me even one case of an anonymous "bullying" gone extreme. But I'm sure you will keep telling me these happened but will not know one real example (one more time - where all the parties are anonymous). Thus, IMO the best anti-dote for "bullying" is anonymity and understanding on the part of the parties involved that anonymity will be maintained.

PS And if you ever find an anonymous interaction where one party committed suicide (again "anonymous" is the key word) I will say that there were other than just "bullying", significant emotional and mental health issues underlying such outcome. And there are probably more people killed while sailing or while being on the boat in any given year than people committing suicide after cyber bullying. Would that mean we should not be encourage sailing in general?
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Old 14-02-2016, 16:15   #240
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Re: Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

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Who said anything about marginalizing? That's nothing close to what I said.
mar·gin·al·ize
ˈmärjənəˌlīz/
verb
treat (a person, group, or concept) as insignificant or peripheral.
"attempting to marginalize those who disagree"
synonyms: sideline, trivialize; isolate, cut off, shut out

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I'm suggesting boatie be given his own forum to postulate and pontificate and rule as he sees fit...
Seemed like a textbook definition of marginalization to me. By using the phrase "...pontificate and rule as he sees fit..." I took it the tone to be derogatory and condescending, not constructive as you apparently intended.
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